Conversation with Fr. James Gordon, FSSP, about Vatican II
#41
how about we try and get this off of youtube instead of having a big ol' discussion over baptism of blood and the papacy
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#42
(12-29-2011, 12:26 PM)rbjmartin Wrote: It pains me that Fr. Gordon was treated this way. If people in the tank knew him as I know him, you would be outraged as well. Fr. Gordon, an ex-Marine officer, is an exemplary priest who is a true spiritual militant in the service of Our Lord. This man is uncompromising in his faith, who takes the self-sacrificing nature of the priesthood seriously. For him to be ambushed this way and recorded without his permission is despicable.

Because Fr. Gordon is a true spiritual militant thus his ability to deal with the ambush.
It's precisely because of his awareness that he's in battle that he can deal with the unexpected and expects the unexpected. He dealt with it in humility and with great charity. He may even have given bro Dimond food for thought.
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#43
(12-29-2011, 08:49 PM)Josué Wrote: how about we try and get this off of youtube instead of having a big ol' discussion over baptism of blood and the papacy

It would be of benefit to many that this stays on you tube. One of the best counter arguments  MHFM have received.
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#44
(12-29-2011, 09:25 PM)columb Wrote:
(12-29-2011, 08:49 PM)Josué Wrote: how about we try and get this off of youtube instead of having a big ol' discussion over baptism of blood and the papacy

It would be of benefit to many that this stays on you tube. One of the best counter arguments  MHFM have received.

I agree 100%. Fr. Gordon did an excellent job defending his position. I have listened to quite a few of Diamonds debates. This phone call in which Fr. Gordon was unprepared to debate (in the sense that he didn't expect it) was more sound than other opponents of MHFM that had the time to prepare because they were planned debates.

   
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#45
(12-29-2011, 10:17 PM)Spencer Wrote:
(12-29-2011, 09:25 PM)columb Wrote:
(12-29-2011, 08:49 PM)Josué Wrote: how about we try and get this off of youtube instead of having a big ol' discussion over baptism of blood and the papacy

It would be of benefit to many that this stays on you tube. One of the best counter arguments  MHFM have received.

I agree 100%. Fr. Gordon did an excellent job defending his position. I have listened to quite a few of Diamonds debates. This phone call in which Fr. Gordon was unprepared to debate (in the sense that he didn't expect it) was more sound than other opponents of MHFM that had the time to prepare because they were planned debates.

   



I agree with it being a good argument againt the heretic but what does Father want?
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#46
(12-29-2011, 12:26 PM)rbjmartin Wrote: It pains me that Fr. Gordon was treated this way. If people in the tank knew him as I know him, you would be outraged as well. Fr. Gordon, an ex-Marine officer, is an exemplary priest who is a true spiritual militant in the service of Our Lord. This man is uncompromising in his faith, who takes the self-sacrificing nature of the priesthood seriously. For him to be ambushed this way and recorded without his permission is despicable.

I thought he was ex-Coast Guard.  Not that it matters much to me.

I'll ask the question again though.  Isn't what Mr. Dimond did the same thing as what Lila Rose does?  Linda Tripp?

It seems there is a double standard.  No?
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#47
Spencer Wrote:On the contrary, The majority of the Church Fathers did not believe in Baptism of desire This is an ipse dixit.  What majority?  If it were not for Baptism of desire, there could not be anyone claiming souls are saved outside of the Catholic Church. That's not the premise of the argument on BOD.  That's the Protestant version of the argument.  No one is saved outside the Church and the conditions are well defined.   
Unlike the one or two Church Fathers who held some belief in Baptism of desire for catechumens, these heretics claim that it can be applied to Jews, Muslims, Protestants, etc. therefor there is no need for Conversion to the one True Faith.  More ipse dixits.  You are misspeaking what the Church teaches, as well as misunderstanding and more so, misinterpreting what has been taught.

Quote:What authority do I need in order to read an encyclical that defines Catholic Dogma and hold fast to it?
If you truly believe that baptism of desire was held by the majority or even many of the early Church Fathers please provide proof.

The authority of the Holy Council of Trent.  And the saints who should know more about the Desire for Baptism than you:  St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Pius X, Bl. Pius IX, St. Alphonsus de Liguori, to name a few. 

N.B.  The term "Baptism of Desire" has been so labeled that understanding it does point out it is a "baptism."   The way we understand it, it is "Desire for Baptism."  The Dimonds and other anti-BOD adherents have it in mind that BOD is the norm and that it takes the place of the Sacrament of Baptism.  If you desire for something quite important (matter of life or death), would it not entail a touch of fervor and ardor (IOW, zeal. passion, intense devotion) to aquire it?  Aquinas defines it so well.  You know that Jesus said "unless you are baptized, you cannot enter Heaven" and you now possess that supernatural love for Him that nothing matters but to do what He commands and you prepare for Baptism.  As the day arrives for this important event, something untoward happens and you don't make it to the fount or laver of regeneration -- the actual pouring of water and the pronouncement of the formula.   The Dimonds, et al., say that you will meet your Judge and He will say to you, "Get out of my sight, you have not been baptized."

Now tell me if this is not what is meant and understood by the desire for Baptism?  The Dimonds don't seem to get it.

BOD is so rare that we don't actually know when it has been apoplied.  I don't know of any instance about anybody who actually didn't make it to his Baptism.  Do you?
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#48
(12-28-2011, 04:48 PM)Caeli24 Wrote:
(12-27-2011, 10:14 PM)Someone1776 Wrote: If that is a private phone conversation that was taped without Father Gordon's permission it should not have been made public. 

I just called Fr. Gordon to tell him about this video. He said that him and "Br. Peter" have been back and forth about a lot of issues and that this video was likely a copy and paste of different conversations they've had. Anyway, Fr. Gordon is a really great priest!
This. I am blessed to have received a lot of good advice from him in the confessional. He also has a remarkable devotion to Our Lady. No doubt it aided him in this situation.
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#49
(12-30-2011, 12:11 AM)Beware_the_Ides Wrote: I thought he was ex-Coast Guard.  Not that it matters much to me.

His two brothers who are also FSSP priests (Frs. James and Dennis Gordon) are former Coast Guard. Fr. Terence Gordon is a former Marine officer.
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#50
(12-30-2011, 03:34 AM)rbjmartin Wrote:
(12-30-2011, 12:11 AM)Beware_the_Ides Wrote: I thought he was ex-Coast Guard.  Not that it matters much to me.

His two brothers who are also FSSP priests (Frs. James and Dennis Gordon) are former Coast Guard. Fr. Terence Gordon is a former Marine officer.
Wow! So many vocations in the one family! What a blessing!

I have have emailed him on a few occasions, and from his replies, I gather that he is a very pious and holy priest who really tries to follow his Blessed Lord.

I think that it is sad that he is being persecuted this way (having the video posted without his permission), and I think the best way we can help is through prayer (and perhaps getting the video down in some way).
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