Baptism of Desire and Theological Principles by Fr. Cekada
#5
(12-29-2011, 10:10 AM)Mithrandylan Wrote: Stubborn- I think that would be a working definition, yes.  It has meant things to me over time, started as a very wide, all encompassing "just try your best and you'll be fine" sort of thing when I first started really getting into the faith.

Now, I believe in BOD but the only person that I can ever say to have experienced it was St. Dismus.  He was never baptized and yet Christ promise him a spot in Heaven.  Unless scripture is wrong.

Well, because Our Lord did not institute the Sacrament till basically just before His Ascension, St. Dismas is an Old Testament saint who died before the Sacrament was instituted, so we can't use his reward as being from BOD - same goes for the Holy Innocents.

(12-29-2011, 10:10 AM)Mithrandylan Wrote: BOD is a tough thing to discuss for a couple reasons, but I think the main reason is that it's existence is a haven for modernists to essentially destroy any reality of EENS.  That's why modernists love the idea of BOD because they can twist it to mean that Catholicism is unnecesary for salvation.  On the other hand, a lot of trads reject it simply on the principle of how it's used by modernsits, and not what it actally means by itself.

EXACTLY. Thank you! This is why I prefer to start off understanding what BOD even is - far as I know, there are at least 5 or 6 different definitions out there.  If we can't get one authoritative definition, I personally believe that the argument in favor of BOD should end right there. 

(12-29-2011, 10:10 AM)Mithrandylan Wrote: I accept BOD as a very rare occurance.  And the only reason I do is because it's in scripture.  I think that for the majority of us, we should look at Matthew 7:7

Matthew 7:7 Wrote:Ask, and it shall be given you: seek, and you shall find: knock, and it shall be opened to you. [8] For every one that asketh, receiveth: and he that seeketh, findeth: and to him that knocketh, it shall be opened.

Those who seek baptism will find it.  Those who desire it will be given it. 

Not sure what you mean here. According to the above Scripture, whoever sincerely desires the sacrament will receive the sacrament before they die. I like to ask - would God deny one who sincerely needs and desires baptism due to Him being too busy feeding the birds? (Mat 6:26)

The Haydock says of Ver. 8. Whatever we ask necessary to salvation with humility, fervour, perseverance, and other due circumstances, we may be assured God will grant when it is best for us. If we do not obtain what we pray for, we must suppose it is not conducive to our salvation, in comparison of which all else is of little moment.
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Re: Baptism of Desire and Theological Principles by Fr. Cekada - by Stubborn - 12-29-2011, 10:40 AM



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