Baptism of Desire and Theological Principles by Fr. Cekada
Getting caught up with some things after holiday travels.  I confess having time at the moment to only skim the 29 pages (I leave for Mass in an hour) of the thread but two comments (which likely have also been made by others):

First, as a point of information:
(12-29-2011, 10:10 AM)Mithrandylan Wrote: Now, I believe in BOD but the only person that I can ever say to have experienced it was St. Dismus.  He was never baptized and yet Christ promise him a spot in Heaven.  Unless scripture is wrong.

I don’t believe that St. Dismas (the good thief on the cross) is covered by BOD.  The Roman Catechism (Catechism of the Council of Trent) says:
Quote:The second period to be distinguished, that is, the time when the law of Baptism was made, also admits of no doubt. Holy writers are unanimous in saying that after the Resurrection of our Lord, when He gave to His Apostles the command to go and teach all nations: baptising them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, the law of Baptism became obligatory on all who were to be saved.

St. Dismas’ salvation occurred before Our Lord’s Resurrection and his salvation would be, I’m thinking, a matter of the process by which all the just of Old Testament times were saved.

Second, to respond to Stubborn’s query:

Some background though:  In earlier times the process of an adult being received into the Church was a bit lengthy, up to two years from what I’ve read.  These adults were catechumens, and were dismissed from the Mass at the end of the Mass of the Catechumens (some strict Orthodox still do this).  It was a far cry from the 6 – 12 catechism sessions with Father before adult baptism that was common in the 1950’s.

In the parochial school I attended in the 1950’s and 60’s (Fr. Cekada and I were born in the same year and I assume we received the same catechesis in this regard) we were taught that BOD / BOB applied (and only applied) to catechumens (those who had formally begun the process of instruction to become Catholic) who were martyred or otherwise died before they could be baptized at the Easter Vigil.  BOD/BOB DID NOT (and does not) apply to random individuals who “think they might want to get baptized someday but haven’t gotten around to starting the process yet”.

My understanding is that some follower’s of Fr. Feeney’s position postulate that in the cases to which BOD/BOB applies God mysteriously supplies water baptism (perhaps in a manner unknown to humans).  As the Church did not actually, as I understand it, condemn Fr. Feeney’s position (his excommunication by Pius XII in 1953 was because of his disobedience to the Holy See) and he was not required to recant his position when he was received back into the Church by Pope Paul VI in 1972 (an interesting case of strange bedfellows here), it would seem that one could hold this position as long as they did not deny the Church’s traditional teaching of BOD/BOB, and the rest of us are not required to believe in some form of “angelic water baptism” in these cases.

While I’m not a scholar of theological history from my limited reading I am unaware that this has been a genuine point of contention in the Church until Fr. Feeney appeared on the scene.

There have been some in the various threads on this topic who have expressed their desire that the Church dogmatically define a “strict interpretation” of EENS and scuttle BOD/BOB.  A difficulty with this, in my humble view, is that (besides the matter of random laity telling the Magisterium of the Church what it should do) is that the Church would then have to condemn EVERY approved catechism that I am aware of: The previously cited Roman Catechism, The Catechism of St. Pius X,
The Baltimore Catechism
(1 – 4, take  your pick), Faith of Our Fathers (Cardinal Gibbons), Father Smith Instructs Jackson, and The Faith of Millions … The Credentials of the Catholic Religion by Fr. John A. O’Brien, to name but a few.  These are ALL pre 1950’s catechisms.  EVERY SINGLE ONE teaches BOD/BOB. 

I once asked in another thread of this topic if anyone could give an example of a pre VII approved catechism (aside from Fr. Feeney’s writings) that did not teach BOD/BOB.  Nobody did.

Messages In This Thread
Re: Baptism of Desire and Theological Principles by Fr. Cekada - by moneil - 01-01-2012, 12:36 PM

Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)