Baptism of Desire and Theological Principles by Fr. Cekada
(01-01-2012, 12:56 PM)Stubborn Wrote:
(12-31-2011, 08:19 PM)jordanawef Wrote: You know where it is in Catechism of Trent.  You have rejected it.

Well, here it is - please demonstrate how you get salvation via desire and via accidental death out of this - or admit it says no such thing:

.........Nor, in fact, does that delay hold the associated danger, which was said above to be certainly imminent for children, since, for those who are endowed with the use of reason, the intention as well as the resolution of receiving baptism, and repentance for a life badly spent, would be sufficient for the grace and the righteousness , if some sudden accident should impede them from being able to be washed in the water of salvation.

Ah, down to the “fine points”.  It is true that the Roman Catechism does not explicitly use the words Baptism of Desire nor Baptism of Blood.  The matter would come down to how does the Church interpret or define the meaning of …resolution … and repentance …  would be sufficient for the grace and the righteousness , if some sudden accident should impede them from being able to be washed in the water of salvation.

For myself (and the majority of pre VII Catholics it seems) one would look to how this passage is defined in subsequent approved pre VII catechisms, which were all based on the Roman Catechism (which was written to instruct priests in their preaching and catechesis which presupposes, I’m thinking, that it was intended to be read and understood by someone with formal theological training).

Let’s take a look at the Catechism of SAINT Pius X (certainly not known for a tolerance of modernism or doctrinal mushiness):

http://www.ewtn.com/library/catechsm/piusxcat.htm#Sacraments
Quote:16 Q. Is Baptism necessary to salvation?
A. Baptism is absolutely necessary to salvation, for our Lord has expressly said: "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God."

17 Q. Can the absence of Baptism be supplied in any other way?
A. The absence of Baptism can be supplied by martyrdom, which is called Baptism of Blood, or by an act of perfect love of God, or of contrition, along with the desire, at least implicit, of Baptism, and this is called Baptism of Desire.

As a simple lay person without formal theological formation, and whose understanding of doctrine is not much beyond the Baltimore Catechism level, I have to decide where to stand on this particular point:

The definition given by a Supreme Pontiff and a canonized saint (and in many respects an icon of traditional Catholicism;

OR

The definition given by an U.S. priest who allowed himself to remain in a state of excommunication from the Church for almost twenty years and who was reconciled with the Church by a pontiff several here don’t recognize as a valid pope.

I will hasten to add that though I’ve never read Fr. Feeney’s writings I do not doubt his personal sanctity nor his devotion to the Church and I pray that by God’s mercy and grace he is among the saints in heaven.

Still, one needs to decide on one interpretation or the other.  On this point I’m sticking with Saint Pius X.

I’m still wondering if anyone can give an example of a post Trent / pre Vatican II approved catechism that DOES NOT teach BOD/BOB?
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Re: Baptism of Desire and Theological Principles by Fr. Cekada - by moneil - 01-01-2012, 01:42 PM



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