Baptism of Desire and Theological Principles by Fr. Cekada
(01-03-2012, 04:03 AM)Doce Me Wrote: Columb,

Here I answer one question of yours, but  I think it is MORE IMPORTANT for you to answer INPEFESS and moneil's posts. I am in particular anxious to see your and Stubborn's responses to INPEFESS'  5 facts http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/inde...sg33669087, which are central to this issue.

(01-03-2012, 01:01 AM)columb Wrote: ...
I would much preferred you answered the first part of my post which highlighted one such possible contradiction; that being; If what you say be true regarding the word "unless" contained in John 3:5 which you say allows for unspoken exceptions, in the verse there is also linked with the word "water" the words "the spirit" conjoined with the word "and."
Therefore if "unless" is permitting unspoken exceptions concerning "water," it must also contain unspoken exceptions concerning "the spirit." No?
...

I actually did answer the first part of your post:
Doce Me Wrote:
(01-02-2012, 09:36 PM)columb Wrote: If what you say be true regarding the word "unless" that it contains unspoken exceptions, in the verse being considered there is also linked in with "water" the words "the spirit" conjoined with the word "and."
Therefore if "unless" is permitting unspoken exceptions concerning "water," it must also contain unspoken exceptions concerning "the spirit." No?

No!   Because there can be exceptions does not mean that there can be any exception you can think of!  The Holy Ghost or the Spirit  (in Sanctifying grace) is given even in baptism of desire, otherwise it would be totally meaningless. If water and the Spirit are both necessary, giving just the Spirit  - in a rare case caused by God not man - would still be an exception. (edited)

I think I messed up my quotes myself, which may explain why you didn't see this answer.  (It may also explain further problems with quoting)

I realize I haven't answered all of your most recent post.

Thank you Doce Me.
Apologies for missing part of your post. That was an excellent reply and much appreciated. I still have this reservation concerning the separation of the water from the spirit and vice versa.
In both sacramental Baptism and BoD the spirit remains operational but in the latter case the spirit is divorced from the water. Now as it is stated that without the water and the spirit (operating in unison) a man cannot enter the kingdom of God, the contradiction remains. If a soul were in fact to enter the kingdom of heaven without the water, the words of Our Lord (and the related infallible pronouncements of His Church) are accused (at the very least) of being ambiguous.when in fact if taken as written they retain their crystal clarity. as per, "If you mean yes say yes, if you mean no say no; anything else comes from the evil one."

Reply


Messages In This Thread
Re: Baptism of Desire and Theological Principles by Fr. Cekada - by columb - 01-03-2012, 06:41 AM



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)