Baptism of Desire: Avoiding the Red Herrings on a Nearby Thread
(01-26-2012, 04:09 PM)yablabo Wrote:
(01-26-2012, 03:12 PM)Parmandur Wrote:
(01-26-2012, 12:01 PM)yablabo Wrote:
(01-26-2012, 02:38 AM)Gregory I Wrote: Hate monger? Fr. Feeney was devoted to our Lady at all times, and was reconciled to the church without giving up any of his views.

Are you aware that all the fathers of the church prior to St. Bernard of Clairveaux unanimously teach that Baptism is an ABSOLUTE and universal obligation and necessity, and that the unanimous teaching is that none can be saved without it? THis is easily seen from the first century up until the 12th century. It's unanimous.

The truth is the first thing out the window in any sort of discussion. 

I think some of the posters on this thread are more concerned with justifying their spiritual investments than searching for truth in communion...as reflected in the lack of willingness to examine the veracity and the logic behind their claims viz. "baptism of desire."  There is more interest in putting forth the notion that we must adhere to the theologians at all costs, to heck with what the Pope has defined or condemned in his infallible magisterium.

-- Nicole

Physician, heal thyself.  :eyeroll:

The point is, the Magisterium has not defined things the way you seem to think it has, and the universal ordinary testimony of the Church testifies to this, particularly in the documents of Trent.  That you are obstinate in your views is unfortunate.

So you say, but you will not provide proof of such.  You quote the likes of Ludwig Otto, not testimony of the Ordinary and Universal Magisterium.

And on the subject of solemn judgments of the Roman Pontiffs:  Provide a single quotation from the Council of Trent that contains the term "baptismus flaminis."...or better yet...an explicit statement from Trent that "voto baptismi" is salvific.  If you say it's there, you must be able to provide evidence of such :)

-- Nicole

"By which words, a description of the Justification of the impious is indicated,- as being a translation [transformation], from that state wherein man is born a child of the first Adam, to the State of Grace, and of the adoption of the Sons of God, through the second Adam, Jesus Christ, our Saviour. And this translation [transformation], since the promulgation of the Gospel, cannot be effected, without the laver of regeneration, or the desire [in voto; votum Baptismi] thereof, as it is written - 'unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God' [John 3:5]" (Council of Trent, Session 6, Monday, January 13, 1547 A.D., Decree on Justification, Chapter IV)

You have been pointed here before, and how this has been interpreted by all the Doctors to mean Baptism of Desire.  Your continual refusal to read this in line with the Church is nothing other than rank Protestantism.  And believe me, I know Protestantism when I see it.
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Re: Baptism of Desire: Avoiding the Red Herrings on a Nearby Thread - by Parmandur - 01-26-2012, 04:53 PM



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