Baptism of Desire: Avoiding the Red Herrings on a Nearby Thread
(01-26-2012, 10:57 PM)Parmandur Wrote:
(01-26-2012, 06:25 PM)yablabo Wrote: I do protest against the false rule of faith you are trying to push upon me and others, but I do not protest against that which is contained as found in Scripture and tradition, nor what the Church proposes to be divinely revealed whether in her solemn judgment or in her Ordinary and Universal Magisterium.

You have clearly made this statement a lie, rather choosing to pick what parts of the Ordinary Magisterium please you most, and tossing away the remnant that is difficult for you.  αἵρεσις, rank αἵρεσις, not καθόλου.

I am writing of the Ordinary and Universal Magisterium, not merely the teaching office of bishops in their own churches, or in unison and union with the Roman Pontiff on matters binding the religious assent, or that of the Roman Pontiff alone when he is teaching the Church, but not in cathedra.  You seem to be changing suppositions, or trying to.

Sts. Bellarmine and Liguori were both Ordinaries as they were Bishops, but neither is my Bishop...which means neither could exercise the Ordinary Magisterium over me.  As Saints and Doctors of the Church, however, they are owed a pious assent due to their credibility.  This credibility, though, does not guarantee their works the infallibility which our Savior wished His Church to enjoy as reflected in the infallible magisterium of the Roman Pontiff.  Also, the teachings of these Bishops does not qualify for consideration as teaching of the Ordinary and Universal Magisterium unless the teachings are universal, antique and unanimous.  Baptism of desire, votum baptismi, or baptismus flaminis as exposed in Ott's Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma contradicts not only the teachings of the Ordinary and Universal Magisterium on the necessity of the Sacrament of Baptism, but also solemn judgments of the Roman Pontiff in that regard.  That is hardly difficult to understand.

One cannot, without transgressing natural reason or the faith one has in the Word of God, discern what the Holy Spirit protects as infallible by the fallible interpretations of theologians viz. the absolute necessity of the Sacrament of Baptism.  It is hardly heresy to hold that position, but rather quite Catholic.   :eyeroll:

-- Nicole

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Re: Baptism of Desire: Avoiding the Red Herrings on a Nearby Thread - by yablabo - 01-27-2012, 12:16 AM

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