Did JP2 excommunicate "ALL" SSPX priests at one point?
#11
(01-04-2012, 09:55 PM)JMartyr Wrote:
(01-04-2012, 09:37 PM)cgraye Wrote:
(01-04-2012, 09:24 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: The excommunications were completely void to begin with.

Because...we want them to be, apparently?
No, because 1983 code said so.

Agreed. It was a case of Rome being hoist on its own petard. Under the 1983 Code there was no way that the six Bishops were validly excommunicated.
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#12
That and the 6 other excommunications that the Bishop of Hawaii gave to the 6 Catholics who attended a Confirmation at a SSPX chapel were also NULL and Void.
If you want more information on that talk to Hawaii Five-0. (He is one of the six).
That in itself should tell you many things about the SSPX.

So pretty much any and all excommunications towards the SSPX has been null and void. They even have the documents to prove it.
So by implication, If you are not outside of the Church, then you are part of It.


Good day





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#13
thanks.. i was pretty sure it was just a misrepresentation on the part of SPLC, but wanted to ask and clear it up.  It's a crock if you ask me..
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#14
I believe it went something like this:




I chuckled and asked my wife watching the movie for the first time the other day, "Do you think JPII stood there like this for Lefebvre?"  .....just messin.  ;)
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#15
(01-04-2012, 09:55 PM)JMartyr Wrote: No, because 1983 code said so.

Not only is the very idea of the Code of Canon Law invalidating the actions of a pope (the ultimate judge of that law) logically ridiculous, but the specific arguments for why it was true in this case fail to convince on any objective level.

In any case, I'd say the SSPX lost their chance to even make that argument when they asked for and accepted the lifting of the excommunications.
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#16
Pope John Paul II upheld the SSPX bishops and Bishop De Castro Meyer excommunicated latae sententiae.
This trumps the 1983 interpretation of the '83 Code as the Holy Father is the highest eathly lawgiver and authoritative interpreter of Canon Law.

From Fr Zuhlsdorf:

"Some are saying that the decree means that there never were excommunications in the first place, some are wondering what the decree meant with the “no longer has juridical effect”. [referring to the lifting of the excommunications]

Let’s take a look at the decree.

But first, remember that back in 1988 the Congregation declared, imposed the excommunication.  The SSPX incurred the excommunication by the fact of what they did.   In Ecclesia Dei adflicta John Paul II said they incurred the excommunication.  But the Congregation for Bishops removed doubt about that by issuing a decree.

Years and year later…. with my emphases.


DECREE REMITTING
THE EXCOMMUNICATION “LATAE SENTENTIAE”
OF THE BISHOPS OF THE SOCIETY OF ST PIUS X

In a letter of 15 December 2008 addressed to Cardinal Dario Castrillon Hoyos, President of the Pontifical Commission “Ecclesia Dei”, Mons. Bernard Fellay writing also in the name of the other three Bishops consecrated on 30 June 1988 requested once again the removal of the excommunication latae sententiae formally declared by a Decree of the Prefect of this Congregation for Bishops on 1 July 1988. In his letter, Mons. Fellay stated, among other things, that “we continue firmly resolute in our desire to remain Catholics and to put all our strength at the service of the Church of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is the Roman Catholic Church. We accept her teachings in a filial spirit. We firmly believe in the primacy of Peter and in his prerogatives, and for this reason the current situation causes us much suffering”.

His Holiness Benedict XVI in his paternal concern for the spiritual distress which the parties concerned have voiced as a result of the excommunication, and trusting in their commitment, expressed in the aforementioned letter, to spare no effort in exploring as yet unresolved questions through requisite discussions with the authorities of the Holy See in order to reach a prompt, full and satisfactory solution to the original problem has decided to reconsider the canonical situation of Bishops Bernard Fellay, Bernard Tissier de Mallerais, Richard Williamson and Alfonso de Galarreta, resulting from their episcopal consecration.

This act signifies a desire to strengthen reciprocal relations of trust, and to deepen and stabilize the relationship of the Society of St Pius X with this Apostolic See. This gift of peace, coming at the end of the Christmas celebrations, is also meant to be a sign which promotes the Universal Church’s unity in charity, and removes the scandal of division.

It is hoped that this step will be followed by the prompt attainment of full communion with the Church on the part of the whole Society of St Pius X, which will thus bear witness to its genuine fidelity and genuine recognition of the Magisterium and authority of the Pope by the proof of visible unity.

On the basis of the powers expressly granted to me by the Holy Father Benedict XVI, by virtue of the present Decree I remit the penalty of excommunication latae sententiae incurred by Bishops Bernard Fellay, Bernard Tissier de Mallerais, Richard Williamson and Alfonso de Galarreta, and declared by this Congregation on 1 July 1988. At the same time I declare that, as of today’s date, the Decree issued at that time no longer has juridical effect.

Rome, from the Congregation for Bishops, 21 January 2009

Cardinal Giovanni Battista Re
Prefect

So, the SSPX bishops were excommunicated.  Now they are not.   The decree of 2009 nullified the decree of 1988 in respect at least to the four SSPX bishops named.  The 2009 decree doesn’t mention the other bishops who, in 1988, incurred the excommunication.  I don’t know how the decree can be interpreted to mean more. Some are saying that by saying that the older decree no longer has juridical effect, that means that even Archbp. Lefevbre is not to have been considered ever excommunicated.  I think that says too much.  Two Popes and the Congregation thought they were.  I’ll go with their opinion.

In any event, the four SSPX bishops are now able to go to confession again.  The other two bishops excommunicated in 1988 no longer have that opportunity.  We entrust their souls to the mercy of God while thanking God that the four still living still have some time to work things out."
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#17
yes
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#18
(01-05-2012, 01:38 PM)Old Salt Wrote: yes

Are you saying all SSPX priests were excomm'd?
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#19
(01-05-2012, 02:37 PM)Crusader_Philly Wrote:
(01-05-2012, 01:38 PM)Old Salt Wrote: yes

Are you saying all SSPX priests were excomm'd?
No.
This "yes" is a technical mistake.
I meant to only post the previous post.
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#20
(01-05-2012, 12:02 PM)cgraye Wrote:
(01-04-2012, 09:55 PM)JMartyr Wrote: No, because 1983 code said so.

Not only is the very idea of the Code of Canon Law invalidating the actions of a pope (the ultimate judge of that law) logically ridiculous, but the specific arguments for why it was true in this case fail to convince on any objective level.

In any case, I'd say the SSPX lost their chance to even make that argument when they asked for and accepted the lifting of the excommunications.

Were the excommunications "lifted" though? IIRC the Pope used different terminology that tended towards them not being formally excommunicated in the first place. I'm not about to look it up but maybe someone else knows offhand.
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