Did JP2 excommunicate "ALL" SSPX priests at one point?
#41
(01-05-2012, 09:41 PM)GottmitunsAlex Wrote:
(01-05-2012, 06:46 PM)Old Salt Wrote: "Having a bunch of bishops going around consecrating other bishops as they like could cause all sorts of problems."

cgraye, You bring up several excellent points, but you hit on one that has bothered me for a while.

What if the FSSPX is not canonically regularised within the next 15 years?
Their bishops will then start to ordain new bishops and the excomm process will start all over again making 2009 a null point.
Hopefully they are regularised by then.
That was the point: a null point. The excommunications were invalid, null, void and for the NOers: lifted.
For the Lawgiver, the Pope, lifted.
He is the one who makes the decision that there were excommunications, and that they now they are now lifted.
We do not make that choice.
He does.
We are not Protestants but rather, Catholics.
Reply
#42
(01-05-2012, 10:50 PM)Old Salt Wrote:
(01-05-2012, 09:41 PM)GottmitunsAlex Wrote:
(01-05-2012, 06:46 PM)Old Salt Wrote: "Having a bunch of bishops going around consecrating other bishops as they like could cause all sorts of problems."

cgraye, You bring up several excellent points, but you hit on one that has bothered me for a while.

What if the FSSPX is not canonically regularised within the next 15 years?
Their bishops will then start to ordain new bishops and the excomm process will start all over again making 2009 a null point.
Hopefully they are regularised by then.
That was the point: a null point. The excommunications were invalid, null, void and for the NOers: lifted.
For the Lawgiver, the Pope, lifted.
He is the one who makes the decision that there were excommunications, and that they now they are now lifted.
We do not make that choice.
He does.
We are not Protestants but rather, Catholics.
Well, Even Pope Benedict XVI, whilst he was Cardinal prefect for Congregatio pro Doctrina Fidei, (that's the congregation for the doctrine of the Faith for the NOers), did his best to not hither away the SSPX but to subtly make the conciliar Church recognize the Sociery for what it is: The SSPX is CATHOLIC as Catholic can get.
6 Catholic laity get die stiefel (the boot) from a "Lawgiver" bishop of Hawaii (Diocese of Honolulu to be exact). He declared them to be excommunicated.
So what did these "ex-mackarel snappers" do? They did not take the "law" into their own hands. They sent their letters to the CDF and what did the good Cardinal do? he DECLARED THE EXCOMMUNICATIONS NULL AND VOID TO BEGIN WITH.
Ok, for the NOers, the excommunications were "lifted".
That move back in the 90's, marked the then Cardinal Ratzinger as a ultra-conservative, a dinosaur, a step backwards cardinal. The "traditionalist cardinal".
"Cardinal allows Catholics to receive sacraments from schismatic bishop"
Read the articles. You'll find em.
 
That is just the tip of the Iceberg.
Now, the next step toward letting it be known to the conciliar church that the SSPX is Catholic and everyone is allowed to attend. Just in case if there are doubts to, (what is your term Old salt? Lift.). Yes, Lift the excommunications of the SSPX bishops. That is saying something. Pretty much IN YOUR FACE saying something about the SSPX.
Of, course, he had to wait till after His Holiness Pope John Paul II passed away to do this.
While Blessed Pope John Paul II was kissing Marcial Maciel, Cardinal Ratzinger was working on plans on how to restore the TLM. Subtly of course.

50 years of garbage. People do get accustomed to it. You just can't flip the switch on em. Now that Is a Pandora's box right there. I can see the headlines now:
"So the experiment didn't work. Back to the Usus Antiquior."
"Oh, Annibal, your cannibalization of the mass failed..to a degree. Well, you never made it to 33 degree master mason anyways"
"Who was St. Marcel Lefebvre?" (Well, just wait 30 years for that. That headline will appear)

Old Salt, with all due respect, please look into (Delve into, if you will) and read about the SSPX. We are Catholic, non-sedevacantist and are not schismatic.
So for us it is very important to recognize the Pontiff, the head of the Christs Visible Church on earth.
The SSPX might not be "lawgivers", but we are law abiders.

And when a particular law is not valid to begin with and you know this to be true, then as St. Vincent of Lerin said: "...then his (a Catholic's) great concern will be to attach himself to antiquity (Tradition) which can no longer be led astray by any lying novelty."
well I rest my case.

Reply
#43
(01-06-2012, 03:16 AM)GottmitunsAlex Wrote:
(01-05-2012, 10:50 PM)Old Salt Wrote:
(01-05-2012, 09:41 PM)GottmitunsAlex Wrote:
(01-05-2012, 06:46 PM)Old Salt Wrote: "Having a bunch of bishops going around consecrating other bishops as they like could cause all sorts of problems."

cgraye, You bring up several excellent points, but you hit on one that has bothered me for a while.

What if the FSSPX is not canonically regularised within the next 15 years?
Their bishops will then start to ordain new bishops and the excomm process will start all over again making 2009 a null point.
Hopefully they are regularised by then.
That was the point: a null point. The excommunications were invalid, null, void and for the NOers: lifted.
For the Lawgiver, the Pope, lifted.
He is the one who makes the decision that there were excommunications, and that they now they are now lifted.
We do not make that choice.
He does.
We are not Protestants but rather, Catholics.
Well, Even Pope Benedict XVI, whilst he was Cardinal prefect for Congregatio pro Doctrina Fidei, (that's the congregation for the doctrine of the Faith for the NOers), did his best to not hither away the SSPX but to subtly make the conciliar Church recognize the Sociery for what it is: The SSPX is CATHOLIC as Catholic can get.
6 Catholic laity get die stiefel (the boot) from a "Lawgiver" bishop of Hawaii (Diocese of Honolulu to be exact). He declared them to be excommunicated.
So what did these "ex-mackarel snappers" do? They did not take the "law" into their own hands. They sent their letters to the CDF and what did the good Cardinal do? he DECLARED THE EXCOMMUNICATIONS NULL AND VOID TO BEGIN WITH.
Ok, for the NOers, the excommunications were "lifted".
That move back in the 90's, marked the then Cardinal Ratzinger as a ultra-conservative, a dinosaur, a step backwards cardinal. The "traditionalist cardinal".
"Cardinal allows Catholics to receive sacraments from schismatic bishop"
Read the articles. You'll find em.
 
That is just the tip of the Iceberg.
Now, the next step toward letting it be known to the conciliar church that the SSPX is Catholic and everyone is allowed to attend. Just in case if there are doubts to, (what is your term Old salt? Lift.). Yes, Lift the excommunications of the SSPX bishops. That is saying something. Pretty much IN YOUR FACE saying something about the SSPX.
Of, course, he had to wait till after His Holiness Pope John Paul II passed away to do this.
While Blessed Pope John Paul II was kissing Marcial Maciel, Cardinal Ratzinger was working on plans on how to restore the TLM. Subtly of course.

50 years of garbage. People do get accustomed to it. You just can't flip the switch on em. Now that Is a Pandora's box right there. I can see the headlines now:
"So the experiment didn't work. Back to the Usus Antiquior."
"Oh, Annibal, your cannibalization of the mass failed..to a degree. Well, you never made it to 33 degree master mason anyways"
"Who was St. Marcel Lefebvre?" (Well, just wait 30 years for that. That headline will appear)

Old Salt, with all due respect, please look into (Delve into, if you will) and read about the SSPX. We are Catholic, non-sedevacantist and are not schismatic.
So for us it is very important to recognize the Pontiff, the head of the Christs Visible Church on earth.
The SSPX might not be "lawgivers", but we are law abiders.

And when a particular law is not valid to begin with and you know this to be true, then as St. Vincent of Lerin said: "...then his (a Catholic's) great concern will be to attach himself to antiquity (Tradition) which can no longer be led astray by any lying novelty."
well I rest my case.
Asi se habla!
Good explanation.
Greetings from an FSSPX in Mexico!
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