Our Lady of X... have mercy on us?
#11
(01-07-2012, 10:05 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote:
(01-07-2012, 10:02 PM)StrictCatholicGirl Wrote:
(01-07-2012, 09:30 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote: Wouldn't it make more sense to ask for God's mercy, through her?

The Church, in her official prayer, always prays to God the Father through Christ Our Lord, often asking the intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary. Think of the Blessed Mother praying with us as she did with the apostles in the upper room at Pentecost.

Yes, that is why we pray to her.  I'm trying to understand why we would ask for her mercy.

Like Vetus, I cannot  recall a prayer or litany in which we actually ask Mary to "have mercy on us." In the Hail Holy Queen we ask her to cast her "eyes of mercy toward us", but I see this as a motherly compassion. She is described as a "most gracious advocate" -- not the source of mercy itself.
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#12
(01-07-2012, 10:11 PM)StrictCatholicGirl Wrote:
(01-07-2012, 10:05 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote:
(01-07-2012, 10:02 PM)StrictCatholicGirl Wrote:
(01-07-2012, 09:30 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote: Wouldn't it make more sense to ask for God's mercy, through her?

The Church, in her official prayer, always prays to God the Father through Christ Our Lord, often asking the intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary. Think of the Blessed Mother praying with us as she did with the apostles in the upper room at Pentecost.

Yes, that is why we pray to her.  I'm trying to understand why we would ask for her mercy.

Like Vetus, I cannot  recall a prayer or litany in which we actually ask Mary to "have mercy on us." In the Hail Holy Queen we ask her to cast her "eyes of mercy toward us", but I see this as a motherly compassion. She is described as a "most gracious advocate" -- not the source of mercy itself.

Well when I pray the memorarae, it ends "in thy mercy hear and answer us."  Isn't this a plea to her mercy?
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#13
Not just mercy but graces flow through her.

From this page on Mary, Mediatrix of All Graces by Father William G. Most.
http://www.ewtn.com/faith/teachings/marya4.htm
Quote:We notice that Vatican II did not add the words "of all graces." However, as many papal texts point out, Mary's role in dispensation flows logically from her role in acquiring all graces. Further, the Council itself added a note on the above passage, in which it refers us to the texts of Leo XIII, Adiutricem populi, St. Pius X, Ad diem illum, Pius XI, Miserentissimus Redemptor, and Pius XII, Radiomessage to Fatima.

Leo XIII, in the text referred to, spoke of her, as we saw above, as having "practically limitless power." St. Pius X said she was the "dispensatrix of all the gifts, and is the "neck" connecting the Head of the Mystical Body to the Members. But all power flows through the neck. Pius XII said "Her kingdom is as vast as that of her Son and God, since nothing is excluded from her dominion." These and many other texts speak in varied ways of Mary as Mediatrix of all graces, so often that the teaching has become infallible.

Pope Pius XI  in his Encyclical on the Sacred Heart, Caritate Christi Compulsi also referred to Mary as Mediatrix of all graces.
http://www.newadvent.org/library/docs_pi11cc.htm
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#14
(01-07-2012, 09:59 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(01-07-2012, 09:56 PM)PeterII Wrote:
(01-07-2012, 09:30 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote:
(01-07-2012, 09:26 PM)PeterII Wrote: Since mercy is defined as showing compassion on a someone, particularly an offender, it makes perfect sense to ask for mercy from the Blessed Virgin Mary who is mediatrix of all graces. 

Wouldn't it make more sense to ask for God's mercy, through her?

Not really.  We're asking for compassion from the BVM herself who is interceding for us and dispensing the grace. 

So kyrie eleison becomes a bit obsolete in that scenario, wouldn't you say?

Only if you assume we should not retain our ancient customs. 
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#15
(01-07-2012, 10:26 PM)PeterII Wrote:
(01-07-2012, 09:59 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(01-07-2012, 09:56 PM)PeterII Wrote:
(01-07-2012, 09:30 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote:
(01-07-2012, 09:26 PM)PeterII Wrote: Since mercy is defined as showing compassion on a someone, particularly an offender, it makes perfect sense to ask for mercy from the Blessed Virgin Mary who is mediatrix of all graces. 

Wouldn't it make more sense to ask for God's mercy, through her?

Not really.  We're asking for compassion from the BVM herself who is interceding for us and dispensing the grace. 

So kyrie eleison becomes a bit obsolete in that scenario, wouldn't you say?

Only if you assume we should not retain our ancient customs. 

I would assume we should retain our ancient faith.

Asking the Virgin directly to have "mercy on us" just like we do towards God is just marianism gone wrong.
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#16
Vetus Ordo Wrote:I would assume we should retain our ancient faith.

Asking the Virgin directly to have "mercy on us" just like we do towards God is just marianism gone wrong.

So let's turn the question around and ask whether Mary is capable of having mercy on us? 
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#17
(01-07-2012, 10:39 PM)PeterII Wrote:
Vetus Ordo Wrote:I would assume we should retain our ancient faith.

Asking the Virgin directly to have "mercy on us" just like we do towards God is just marianism gone wrong.

So let's turn the question around and ask whether Mary is capable of having mercy on us? 

Her will is conformed to God's, just like the will of the saints. If God has mercy on us, she does too.

The point, however, is that the lines are being blurred by asking her directly to have "mercy on us" as if she were the source of mercy and not God.
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#18
The Memorare:

EWTN Wrote:Remember, O most gracious Virgin Mary, that never was it known that anyone who fled to thy protection, implored thy help, or sought thine intercession was left unaided.
Inspired by this confidence, I fly unto thee, O Virgin of virgins, my mother; to thee do I come, before thee I stand, sinful and sorrowful. O Mother of the Word Incarnate, despise not my petitions, but in thy mercy hear and answer me.

Amen.

This prayer asks that, in her mercy (her motherly compassion), she intercede for us.  At least that's what I see in that prayer.
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#19
(01-07-2012, 10:57 PM)DeiMateralma Wrote: The Memorare:

EWTN Wrote:Remember, O most gracious Virgin Mary, that never was it known that anyone who fled to thy protection, implored thy help, or sought thine intercession was left unaided.
Inspired by this confidence, I fly unto thee, O Virgin of virgins, my mother; to thee do I come, before thee I stand, sinful and sorrowful. O Mother of the Word Incarnate, despise not my petitions, but in thy mercy hear and answer me.

Amen.

This prayer asks that, in her mercy (her motherly compassion), she intercede for us.  At least that's what I see in that prayer.

That's what I see too, hon.
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#20
Vetus Ordo Wrote:Her will is conformed to God's, just like the will of the saints. If God has mercy on us, she does too.

The point, however, is that the lines are being blurred by asking her directly to have "mercy on us" as if she were the source of mercy and not God.

But she administers those graces and decides whether we get them or not. It's the Protestants who think we should ask God directly for everything. 
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