Our Lady of X... have mercy on us?
#51
I understand where you are coming from and have the same concerns.





(01-08-2012, 02:58 PM)Resurrexi Wrote:
(01-08-2012, 02:52 PM)Cato76 Wrote: I can understand what you are saying, but its really individuals who are confusing things.  The Church's meaning is for these types of devotions are pure.

Of course. I have no problem with the liturgical feast of the Holy Family, or how the Church celebrates this feast in her Mass and Office.

But popular aspirations regarding the Holy Family often seem rather incongruous with Trinitarian monotheism.

I found this aspiration on a devotional website, "Jesus, Mary and Joseph, enlighten us, help us, and save us. Amen." It seems to be making a second trinity of Jesus, Mary, and Joseph; it seems to be saying that Mary and Joseph are our saviors rather than God.
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#52
No one can argue with you, but I do not believe that is what some are saying in this thread.  It looks like some are saying Mary can forgive sins in general and who receives grace .  This was never taught by the Church anywhere I can remember.  If I am wrong I sure would like to know as not to offend the Holy Mother.




(01-08-2012, 03:02 PM)voxpopulisuxx Wrote:
(01-08-2012, 02:50 PM)Cato76 Wrote: I can forgive others.  However, I went to confession yesterday and received absolution from the priest.  Did the priest extend forgiveness to me or did Christ through the priest?





(01-08-2012, 02:40 PM)voxpopulisuxx Wrote:
(01-08-2012, 02:36 PM)Cato76 Wrote: I know what you mean.  Many years ago I was at a Good Friday service.  The prayer booklet had a prayer that said, and I am paraphrasing: "Jesus and Mary, forgive us our sins."  It really made me question that prayer.  Only God forgives sins.




(01-07-2012, 06:28 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote: I wanted to help to better understand prayers that address the Blessed Virgin and her "mercy."  What comes to mind immediately is the Memorarae. which ends ... and in thy mercy hear and answer us/our petitions."  I've heard other prayers that I can't think of that address Our Lady in the context of mercy as well although can't think of them at the moment.

Obviously we revere Mary more than any other saint, but something doesn't sit right when I hear/read/say a prayer asking for her mercy because it seems that is God's to give, hence why it's "Name of God have mercy on us" and "Name of saint pray for us.

We ask for saints and Mary's intercession as a kind of intermediary between us and God, right?  It is not because a particular saint or the BVM can grant anything that isn't God's will anyways.  Our Lady isn't a way of getting around God, and same with the saints- their will is uniformed to His, so when we pray to them, whatever miracles God would work through them He choses to work through them, He doesn't "change His mind" or "decide" to because they had some influence on Him, it's as He has already ordained it to be.  He will have mercy on whom He will have mercy, it doesn't seem correct that we would ask for a saint's mercy because they don't have it in any useful capacity, right?

So why do we ask for the Blessed Virgin's mercy?
You cant forgive the sins of others?
Yes but when I pray for God to forgive me I am asking for absolution, when I ask Our Lady I am asking for comfort and asking she forgive me my forgetting her and not doing the things she helps inspire me to do. Mary cannot give me the absolution for my sins against God, but she can forgive my trespasses against her, just as I can forgive the tresspasses from you or you to me. You are mixing up the context to suit your argument. Its like when the Protty says we are worshiping Mary as God because we ask her to pray for us. Never Forget Mary is a living breathing Human being and just as you would ask your earthly mom to forgive you when you hurt her or embarrased her or forgot her in some way...the same can be said of Our Mother in heaven.
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#53
(01-08-2012, 03:04 PM)Cato76 Wrote: I understand where you are coming from and have the same concerns.





(01-08-2012, 02:58 PM)Resurrexi Wrote:
(01-08-2012, 02:52 PM)Cato76 Wrote: I can understand what you are saying, but its really individuals who are confusing things.  The Church's meaning is for these types of devotions are pure.

Of course. I have no problem with the liturgical feast of the Holy Family, or how the Church celebrates this feast in her Mass and Office.

But popular aspirations regarding the Holy Family often seem rather incongruous with Trinitarian monotheism.

I found this aspiration on a devotional website, "Jesus, Mary and Joseph, enlighten us, help us, and save us. Amen." It seems to be making a second trinity of Jesus, Mary, and Joseph; it seems to be saying that Mary and Joseph are our saviors rather than God.

Hmmm...

What do you think of the practice of schoolchildren heading their written assignments wit the initials J+M+J, as I used to do?
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#54
Cato all I am saying is are you sure that is the intention when people ask Mary to forgive them, in some instances Im sure it is the case, but I dont think its the general intention by most.
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#55
No problem.  My students do it all the time.  I love the practice.





(01-08-2012, 03:21 PM)DeiMateralma Wrote:
(01-08-2012, 03:04 PM)Cato76 Wrote: I understand where you are coming from and have the same concerns.





(01-08-2012, 02:58 PM)Resurrexi Wrote:
(01-08-2012, 02:52 PM)Cato76 Wrote: I can understand what you are saying, but its really individuals who are confusing things.  The Church's meaning is for these types of devotions are pure.

Of course. I have no problem with the liturgical feast of the Holy Family, or how the Church celebrates this feast in her Mass and Office.

But popular aspirations regarding the Holy Family often seem rather incongruous with Trinitarian monotheism.

I found this aspiration on a devotional website, "Jesus, Mary and Joseph, enlighten us, help us, and save us. Amen." It seems to be making a second trinity of Jesus, Mary, and Joseph; it seems to be saying that Mary and Joseph are our saviors rather than God.

Hmmm...

What do you think of the practice of schoolchildren heading their written assignments wit the initials J+M+J, as I used to do?
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#56
Well, we do know that Mary is the mediatrix of all Graces as well as Co-redemptrix. When you think of this, it only makes sense. God chose Mary to bring us Jesus. Jesus came to us through Mary and we must go to Jesus through Mary also.

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#57
So when we pray the Our Father, the most perfect prayer there is, does God dispense grace through Mary as well?

The turning of Jesus into a "Mamma's boy" is unsettling.
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#58
(01-08-2012, 04:10 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: So when we pray the Our Father, the most perfect prayer there is, does God dispense grace through Mary as well?

The turning of Jesus into a "Mamma's boy" is unsettling.
ALL Graces are dispensed through Mary, this is Catholic dogma. Jesus is Head of the Body, Mary the neck. When your Brain controls your body it has no other route then thru the neck. This is how God wants it.
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#59
(01-08-2012, 03:21 PM)DeiMateralma Wrote:
(01-08-2012, 03:04 PM)Cato76 Wrote: I understand where you are coming from and have the same concerns.





(01-08-2012, 02:58 PM)Resurrexi Wrote:
(01-08-2012, 02:52 PM)Cato76 Wrote: I can understand what you are saying, but its really individuals who are confusing things.  The Church's meaning is for these types of devotions are pure.

Of course. I have no problem with the liturgical feast of the Holy Family, or how the Church celebrates this feast in her Mass and Office.

But popular aspirations regarding the Holy Family often seem rather incongruous with Trinitarian monotheism.

I found this aspiration on a devotional website, "Jesus, Mary and Joseph, enlighten us, help us, and save us. Amen." It seems to be making a second trinity of Jesus, Mary, and Joseph; it seems to be saying that Mary and Joseph are our saviors rather than God.

Hmmm...

What do you think of the practice of schoolchildren heading their written assignments wit the initials J+M+J, as I used to do?

I think it would make more sense to write AMDG (i.e. ad maiorem Dei gloriam -- for the greater glory of God) at the top of a paper, especially since that would make it clear you're dedicating your work to a specific purpose.
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#60
(01-08-2012, 04:28 PM)voxpopulisuxx Wrote:
(01-08-2012, 04:10 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: So when we pray the Our Father, the most perfect prayer there is, does God dispense grace through Mary as well?

The turning of Jesus into a "Mamma's boy" is unsettling.
ALL Graces are dispensed through Mary, this is Catholic dogma.

Evidence?

If you're going to claim something is a dogma, you need to show either that it's been infallibly defined or has been taught by the ordinary and universal magisterium.
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