This Place is a Cesspit
#41
(01-20-2012, 01:27 AM)Resurrexi Wrote:
(01-20-2012, 01:09 AM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(01-20-2012, 01:01 AM)Resurrexi Wrote: In contrast, most Americans, trad or otherwise, were formed by and identify with the political ideologies based on the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. British trads, too, have their own tradition of classical liberalism.

American born, proud Canadian of British background, and I identify with the Counter-Revolutionary Right in France. To hell (literally) with the Declaration of Independence and its evil spawn, the Declaration of the Rights of Man and the Citizen, and the 'classical liberalism' (=evil, anti-Catholic ideology) of Britain.

I said "most Americans." You're certainly an anomaly.

Also, I think you're wrong to associate as you do the American Revolution with the French Revolution. The former was conservative and not hostile to religion, whereas the latter was radical and anti-religious.
Quite true!

Let's not forget though, that the American Revolution was fought by heretics on both sides.

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#42
(01-20-2012, 01:40 AM)GottmitunsAlex Wrote:
(01-20-2012, 01:27 AM)Resurrexi Wrote:
(01-20-2012, 01:09 AM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(01-20-2012, 01:01 AM)Resurrexi Wrote: In contrast, most Americans, trad or otherwise, were formed by and identify with the political ideologies based on the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. British trads, too, have their own tradition of classical liberalism.

American born, proud Canadian of British background, and I identify with the Counter-Revolutionary Right in France. To hell (literally) with the Declaration of Independence and its evil spawn, the Declaration of the Rights of Man and the Citizen, and the 'classical liberalism' (=evil, anti-Catholic ideology) of Britain.

I said "most Americans." You're certainly an anomaly.

Also, I think you're wrong to associate as you do the American Revolution with the French Revolution. The former was conservative and not hostile to religion, whereas the latter was radical and anti-religious.
Quite true!

Let's not forget though, that the American Revolution was fought by heretics on both sides.

The number of Catholics on either side was indeed proportionally small. That doesn't mean, however, one of the sides could not have been better than the other.
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#43
(01-20-2012, 01:16 AM)Someone1776 Wrote: Pope Leo XIII said the American Revolution was divine providence.  You saying Pope Leo XIII supported evil?

Yep, the same way he supported evil in selling out the Church and the monarchist movement in France. Prudential decisions of a Pope regarding temporal politics are no different than anyone else's. They can be radically wrong.
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#44
(01-20-2012, 01:27 AM)Resurrexi Wrote: Also, I think you're wrong to associate as you do the American Revolution with the French Revolution. The former was conservative and not hostile to religion, whereas the latter was radical and anti-religious.

Fought with minority support by 13  rebellious, traitorous colonies, in 11 of which our Holy Faith was illegal, led by freemasons, atheists and deists, and it was 'conservative'.? ! We obviously have radically different definitions of the word conservative.
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#45
(01-20-2012, 02:11 AM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(01-20-2012, 01:16 AM)Someone1776 Wrote: Pope Leo XIII said the American Revolution was divine providence.  You saying Pope Leo XIII supported evil?

Yep, the same way he supported evil in selling out the Church and the monarchist movement in France. Prudential decisions of a Pope regarding temporal politics are no different than anyone else's. They can be radically wrong.
Same happened with Pope Pius XI and the Mexican Cristero war. The Pope was poorly informed of the situation and he sent the order to the Mexican bishops to sign the armistice agreement with the Mexican government and to tell the Cristeros to desist with the fighting and lay down their weapons.
Bad move.
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#46
(01-20-2012, 02:16 AM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(01-20-2012, 01:27 AM)Resurrexi Wrote: Also, I think you're wrong to associate as you do the American Revolution with the French Revolution. The former was conservative and not hostile to religion, whereas the latter was radical and anti-religious.

Fought with minority support by 13  rebellious, traitorous colonies, in 11 of which our Holy Faith was illegal, led by freemasons, atheists and deists, and it was 'conservative'.? ! We obviously have radically different definitions of the word conservative.
I second the motion.
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#47
(01-20-2012, 02:17 AM)GottmitunsAlex Wrote:
(01-20-2012, 02:11 AM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(01-20-2012, 01:16 AM)Someone1776 Wrote: Pope Leo XIII said the American Revolution was divine providence.  You saying Pope Leo XIII supported evil?

Yep, the same way he supported evil in selling out the Church and the monarchist movement in France. Prudential decisions of a Pope regarding temporal politics are no different than anyone else's. They can be radically wrong.
Same happened with Pope Pius XI and the Mexican Cristero war. The Pope was poorly informed of the situation and he sent the order to the Mexican bishops to sign the armistice agreement with the Mexican government and to tell the Cristeros to desist with the fighting and lay down their weapons.
Bad move.
Correct Alex. It was the American bishops who informed Pope Pius XI about the situation and they were the ones that recommended the papa to send the communique to Mexico.
Remember that the masons had already infiltrated the Catholic Church in America by then (1920's)
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#48
(01-20-2012, 02:16 AM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(01-20-2012, 01:27 AM)Resurrexi Wrote: Also, I think you're wrong to associate as you do the American Revolution with the French Revolution. The former was conservative and not hostile to religion, whereas the latter was radical and anti-religious.

Fought with minority support by 13  rebellious, traitorous colonies, in 11 of which our Holy Faith was illegal, led by freemasons, atheists and deists, and it was 'conservative'.? ! We obviously have radically different definitions of the word conservative.

:yawn:

Same old Jovan throwing around an excessive number adjectives and adverbs (and usually disparaging ones!).

Strunk and White, bro.
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#49
(01-20-2012, 02:17 AM)GottmitunsAlex Wrote:
(01-20-2012, 02:11 AM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(01-20-2012, 01:16 AM)Someone1776 Wrote: Pope Leo XIII said the American Revolution was divine providence.  You saying Pope Leo XIII supported evil?

Yep, the same way he supported evil in selling out the Church and the monarchist movement in France. Prudential decisions of a Pope regarding temporal politics are no different than anyone else's. They can be radically wrong.
Same happened with Pope Pius XI and the Mexican Cristero war. The Pope was poorly informed of the situation and he sent the order to the Mexican bishops to sign the armistice agreement with the Mexican government and to tell the Cristeros to desist with the fighting and lay down their weapons.
Bad move.

Exactly! And in other areas I greatly admire both Leo XIII and Pius XI, but their political 'wisdom' was non existent!
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#50
(01-20-2012, 01:53 AM)Resurrexi Wrote:
(01-20-2012, 01:40 AM)GottmitunsAlex Wrote:
(01-20-2012, 01:27 AM)Resurrexi Wrote:
(01-20-2012, 01:09 AM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(01-20-2012, 01:01 AM)Resurrexi Wrote: In contrast, most Americans, trad or otherwise, were formed by and identify with the political ideologies based on the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. British trads, too, have their own tradition of classical liberalism.

American born, proud Canadian of British background, and I identify with the Counter-Revolutionary Right in France. To hell (literally) with the Declaration of Independence and its evil spawn, the Declaration of the Rights of Man and the Citizen, and the 'classical liberalism' (=evil, anti-Catholic ideology) of Britain.

I said "most Americans." You're certainly an anomaly.

Also, I think you're wrong to associate as you do the American Revolution with the French Revolution. The former was conservative and not hostile to religion, whereas the latter was radical and anti-religious.
Quite true!

Let's not forget though, that the American Revolution was fought by heretics on both sides.

The number of Catholics on either side was indeed proportionally small. That doesn't mean, however, one of the sides could not have been better than the other.
That is greatly dependent on your point of view. Take for instance, the French Revolution. Inexcusably one side was better than the other.
Now as per the American Revolution, well, it's a whole different story.
Kinda reminds me of a phrase from the french planter in the movie South Pacific: "I know who you are against. But what are you for?"

Food for thought:
The majority of Catholics in the colonies tended to be loyalists.
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