Are You an Unconscious Modernist?
#21
(01-22-2012, 12:29 AM)colombiano Wrote: I came to Tradition very recently and find myself having to re-evaluate everything that I learnt as a NO catholic in the past 18 years. The one good thing, by the grace of God, is that I rejected Medjugorje many years ago already. I was very involved in this deception so it was a big step to change my mind about it .

Welcome, friend. Have you read Iota Unum yet? If not, begin immediately!
Reply
#22
(01-22-2012, 01:05 AM)alphonsusjr Wrote:
(01-22-2012, 12:29 AM)colombiano Wrote: I came to Tradition very recently and find myself having to re-evaluate everything that I learnt as a NO catholic in the past 18 years. The one good thing, by the grace of God, is that I rejected Medjugorje many years ago already. I was very involved in this deception so it was a big step to change my mind about it .

Welcome, friend. Have you read Iota Unum yet? If not, begin immediately!

No. Don't even know what it is. There are so many things I have never heard about before..........like ember days. Thanks, I'll look into it.

It's funny cause I considered myself a pretty knowledgeable Catholic. I feel as if I was about to finish highschool only to be sent back to kindergarden to start all over again  Smile


Reply
#23
(01-22-2012, 01:23 AM)colombiano Wrote: [quote='alphonsusjr' pid='960232' dateline='1327208738']
[quote='colombiano' pid='960187' dateline='1327206590']
I came to Tradition very recently and find myself having to re-evaluate everything that I learnt as a NO catholic in the past 18 years. The one good thing, by the grace of God, is that I rejected Medjugorje many years ago already. I was very involved in this deception so it was a big step to change my mind about it .

Is Medjugorje a litmus test on modernism?



Reply
#24
(01-21-2012, 10:59 PM)Someone1776 Wrote:
(01-21-2012, 10:56 PM)Resurrexi Wrote:
(01-21-2012, 10:31 PM)Someone1776 Wrote: f I remember Augustine correctly he stated while the Bible is the inspired word of God when it comes to "facts" it's not always correct, but this in no way impacts belief or inspiration.

Such an interpretation of Augustine doesn't seem to be consistent with Providentissimus Deus. I guess Augustine could have just been wrong on this point, but the CDF, in the the Doctrinal Commentary on the Concluding Formula of the Professio Fidei, states that the "the absence of error in the inspired sacred texts" is a divinely revealed dogma.

Well, how do you reconcile the synoptics describing Christ's crucifixion on passover and John saying it happened the day before the passover? Or Mark's misquote from Isiah? 

There have been a lot of attempts by historical Catholic biblical scholars to explain these seeming inconsistencies. It may seem like mental gymnastics a lot of the time, but I generally think they have done a good job.

The Haydock Commentary and the Catholic Encyclopedia both include a lot of examples of such explanations. 
Reply
#25
(01-22-2012, 01:29 AM)onosurf Wrote:
(01-22-2012, 01:23 AM)colombiano Wrote: [quote='alphonsusjr' pid='960232' dateline='1327208738']
[quote='colombiano' pid='960187' dateline='1327206590']
I came to Tradition very recently and find myself having to re-evaluate everything that I learnt as a NO catholic in the past 18 years. The one good thing, by the grace of God, is that I rejected Medjugorje many years ago already. I was very involved in this deception so it was a big step to change my mind about it .

Is Medjugorje a litmus test on modernism?

I think it is. I can't imagine anyone becoming a Traditional Catholic and continue being involved with Medjugorje at the same time.
Reply
#26
(01-21-2012, 09:47 PM)alphonsusjr Wrote: That is, are you a Modernist who's sleeping? Just kidding!

But have you ever thought about the ways in which you might have unconsciously imbibed of that horrific poison we know as Modernism? I like to think of myself as a traditionalist, but it's probably true that I unwittingly hold some Modernist positions. For instance, do I believe that there are multiple Isaiahs, that Daniel was written a hundred years later than it claims, or that Paul didn't write the Pastoral epistles? Or, do I believe that assistance at the Novus Ordo vs. the traditional Mass is simply a matter of preference? All this could be just the tip of the iceberg. I might be a full-blown Modernist and not even know it! Which reminds me:

O horror, horror, horror! Tongue nor heart
Cannot conceive nor name thee!

-Shakespeare, Macbeth





Who among us is untainted by this blasted age?

I'm Alphonsus Jr.

Most of the people I know are unconscious modernists, there's a pretty easy to find out, simply ask them about 'The social reign of Our Lord Jesus Christ', if this  Huh?  is their response followed by  Shocked when you explain it to them, you can be pretty sure they are a modernist and in most cases its unconscious i.e they didn't deliberately choose it, they simply were taught it.  Many of my protestant friends are a good example, they believe these things because its 'Christian' and yet I am almost sure they couldn't justify it by using the bible  sad
Reply
#27
I confess.  Blush  I was pretty well inebriated by Modernism for most of my life.  For example, I'm really trying to learn the truth about the modern age in comparison to the rest of history, from which it sticks out like a sore thumb, because for so long even after I joined the Church, I would cringe when I remembered Pope St. Pius X's quote, "Truly we are passing through disastrous times, when we may well make our own the lamentation of the Prophet:  'There is no truth, and there is no mercy, and there is no knowledge of God in the land.' (Osee 4:1)" 

I was inundated from birth with the notion that the last century was the best one yet (!), and things would only get better, if we were vigilant not to allow the clock to be turned "backward" again.  Now, I can only shake my head in wonder at this notion.  Seriously.  A century of endless wars, in which something like 100,000,000 people were murdered, plus over 60,000,000 babies--in the US alone...in which each nation raced to out-do the rest in creating, or procuring, the most destructive technology possible...in which two cities were destroyed with nuclear weapons...in which genocide kept rearing its ugly head in one region after another...in which even violent pornography is not only legalized, but paraded in front of children--along with every other possible kind of perversion, including, in some countries, the kind that fixes its crosshairs on their innocent little faces.  I read somewhere that more Catholics were martyred in the 20th century than in all previous centuries combined.  I don't know if that last is accurate; I'm pretty sure the source was NO, so it might have included heretics (Protestants and Orthodox) in the total, but I know it was no small number, anyway.  And the martyrdom continues.  I read of some particularly grotesque ones in India in recent years, the details of which probably don't need to be repeated here.  But it just goes to show how blind, how illogical Modernism makes people.  Jesus Christ is Truth; St. Teresa of Avila once said Satan is "nothing but one great lie." 

So a traditional Catholic view of history, and especially of the USA, is at the top of my list of detox items.  Unfortunately, I neither know what to read nor have the money to buy it, nor the time to read it at present. 

Questions like these are great to see.  It helps to be challenged to be vigilant about this stuff.  And to pray for the reign of the Sacred and Immaculate Hearts of Jesus and Mary. 

Reply
#28
(01-22-2012, 11:21 PM)SimplyCatholic Wrote: I confess.  Blush  I was pretty well inebriated by Modernism for most of my life.  For example, I'm really trying to learn the truth about the modern age in comparison to the rest of history, from which it sticks out like a sore thumb, because for so long even after I joined the Church, I would cringe when I remembered Pope St. Pius X's quote, "Truly we are passing through disastrous times, when we may well make our own the lamentation of the Prophet:  'There is no truth, and there is no mercy, and there is no knowledge of God in the land.' (Osee 4:1)" 

I was inundated from birth with the notion that the last century was the best one yet (!), and things would only get better, if we were vigilant not to allow the clock to be turned "backward" again.  Now, I can only shake my head in wonder at this notion.  Seriously.  A century of endless wars, in which something like 100,000,000 people were murdered, plus over 60,000,000 babies--in the US alone...in which each nation raced to out-do the rest in creating, or procuring, the most destructive technology possible...in which two cities were destroyed with nuclear weapons...in which genocide kept rearing its ugly head in one region after another...in which even violent pornography is not only legalized, but paraded in front of children--along with every other possible kind of perversion, including, in some countries, the kind that fixes its crosshairs on their innocent little faces.  I read somewhere that more Catholics were martyred in the 20th century than in all previous centuries combined.  I don't know if that last is accurate; I'm pretty sure the source was NO, so it might have included heretics (Protestants and Orthodox) in the total, but I know it was no small number, anyway.  And the martyrdom continues.  I read of some particularly grotesque ones in India in recent years, the details of which probably don't need to be repeated here.  But it just goes to show how blind, how illogical Modernism makes people.  Jesus Christ is Truth; St. Teresa of Avila once said Satan is "nothing but one great lie." 

So a traditional Catholic view of history, and especially of the USA, is at the top of my list of detox items.  Unfortunately, I neither know what to read nor have the money to buy it, nor the time to read it at present. 

Questions like these are great to see.  It helps to be challenged to be vigilant about this stuff.  And to pray for the reign of the Sacred and Immaculate Hearts of Jesus and Mary. 

Thank you for this great post.
Reply
#29
I try not to use modernism as a measure for anything. If I judge my faith by modernism, or whether I have modernist tendencies, that seems to me to be a modernist idea. I just judge my faith by the Faith, and go from there. I see no need to label anything modernism, just not Catholic, because modernism is more wiggly than a eel. Catholicism as a measure is steady.
Reply
#30
To riff on Scriptorium a little, I was fortunate in an odd way. I was formed before the onslaught which followed Vatican II. I quit the Church during the changes for two reasons, I was a sinner, and I couldn't take the new. I went into the wilderness, but somewhere deep in my soul, what I had been taught still guided me. I returned many, many years later, having been a lot like Rip Van Winkle I was now awake.  After returning to the Church what I had been taught re-emerged, and I became whole.

What I did was steer clear from holding positions and arguing pro and con concerning the scandals and the heresies we live in. I'm certain a left handed way, to be as stained as the modernists, is we lay men going into batttle on those issues. They are slippery more than eels, and the Devil is a gajillion times smarter than we are and he will get us going side ways until we are in his camp and don't even know it.

Most importantly, it is Catholic to concentrate on what we should and are capable of doing. Prayer in all of it's forms is our job. The Office, the Rosary, the Chaplet of Divine Mercy, Devotion to the Sacred Heart, and on and on, these are the way we can defeat this. Our puny reasoning is not. We are cursed from Original Sin and one of the effects is we are stupid compared to before. Our minds have been dimmed, and somehow the Devil makes us believe we are smart enough to take him on in that arena. Horse Feathers.

There is a "payday" coming, and those responsible for losing all of these souls will get what they deserve. What we should be doing is explaining to folks what Catholic is in it's simplest terms, like in the Baltimore Catechism, and admonishing them to stay away from all other stuff. Trying to teach what is an is not modernism is insane. To Scriptorium's point judge your self by what is Catholic not by if infected by modernisn. Christ said His yoke is light. A yoke is custom made for two oxen. Christ knew this he made them and  one is extant, today. He also is telling us He is the othe Ox. One ox can not do it.

tim

tim
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)