Are You an Unconscious Modernist?
#31
(01-23-2012, 11:40 AM)Tim Wrote: Most importantly, it is Catholic to concentrate on what we should and are capable of doing. Prayer in all of it's forms is our job. The Office, the Rosary, the Chaplet of Divine Mercy, Devotion to the Sacred Heart, and on and on, these are the way we can defeat this. Our puny reasoning is not. We are cursed from Original Sin and one of the effects is we are stupid compared to before. Our minds have been dimmed, and somehow the Devil makes us believe we are smart enough to take him on in that arena. Horse Feathers.

There is a "payday" coming, and those responsible for losing all of these souls will get what they deserve. What we should be doing is explaining to folks what Catholic is in it's simplest terms, like in the Baltimore Catechism, and admonishing them to stay away from all other stuff. Trying to teach what is an is not modernism is insane. To Scriptorium's point judge your self by what is Catholic not by if infected by modernisn. Christ said His yoke is light. A yoke is custom made for two oxen. Christ knew this he made them and  one is extant, today. He also is telling us He is the othe Ox. One ox can not do it.

tim

tim

I would agree, except the Church has always allowed for legitmate theological discussion, reason and a deeper understanding and development of our faith is a crucial part of the activity of the Church, this is upheld most clearly by the creation of 'Doctors of the Church' and the part theologians have had to play in the church since its very creation vis a vis The Church fathers and ecumenical councils of the Church. The same goes with judging and condemning heresy or purging onself of heretical thought.
Reply
#32
(01-23-2012, 12:08 PM)TrentCath Wrote:
(01-23-2012, 11:40 AM)Tim Wrote: Most importantly, it is Catholic to concentrate on what we should and are capable of doing. Prayer in all of it's forms is our job. The Office, the Rosary, the Chaplet of Divine Mercy, Devotion to the Sacred Heart, and on and on, these are the way we can defeat this. Our puny reasoning is not. We are cursed from Original Sin and one of the effects is we are stupid compared to before. Our minds have been dimmed, and somehow the Devil makes us believe we are smart enough to take him on in that arena. Horse Feathers.

There is a "payday" coming, and those responsible for losing all of these souls will get what they deserve. What we should be doing is explaining to folks what Catholic is in it's simplest terms, like in the Baltimore Catechism, and admonishing them to stay away from all other stuff. Trying to teach what is an is not modernism is insane. To Scriptorium's point judge your self by what is Catholic not by if infected by modernisn. Christ said His yoke is light. A yoke is custom made for two oxen. Christ knew this he made them and  one is extant, today. He also is telling us He is the othe Ox. One ox can not do it.

tim

tim

I would agree, except the Church has always allowed for legitmate theological discussion, reason and a deeper understanding and development of our faith is a crucial part of the activity of the Church, this is upheld most clearly by the creation of 'Doctors of the Church' and the part theologians have had to play in the church since its very creation vis a vis The Church fathers and ecumenical councils of the Church. The same goes with judging and condemning heresy or purging onself of heretical thought.

Except that is left to Theologians. The Faith is simple. If you stick to the simple basics then all of those heresies wil not effect you. Legitimate theological discussion is carried on in the Church by those with license, not us.

tim
Reply
#33
(01-23-2012, 12:36 PM)Tim Wrote:
(01-23-2012, 12:08 PM)TrentCath Wrote:
(01-23-2012, 11:40 AM)Tim Wrote: Most importantly, it is Catholic to concentrate on what we should and are capable of doing. Prayer in all of it's forms is our job. The Office, the Rosary, the Chaplet of Divine Mercy, Devotion to the Sacred Heart, and on and on, these are the way we can defeat this. Our puny reasoning is not. We are cursed from Original Sin and one of the effects is we are stupid compared to before. Our minds have been dimmed, and somehow the Devil makes us believe we are smart enough to take him on in that arena. Horse Feathers.

There is a "payday" coming, and those responsible for losing all of these souls will get what they deserve. What we should be doing is explaining to folks what Catholic is in it's simplest terms, like in the Baltimore Catechism, and admonishing them to stay away from all other stuff. Trying to teach what is an is not modernism is insane. To Scriptorium's point judge your self by what is Catholic not by if infected by modernisn. Christ said His yoke is light. A yoke is custom made for two oxen. Christ knew this he made them and  one is extant, today. He also is telling us He is the othe Ox. One ox can not do it.

tim

tim

I would agree, except the Church has always allowed for legitmate theological discussion, reason and a deeper understanding and development of our faith is a crucial part of the activity of the Church, this is upheld most clearly by the creation of 'Doctors of the Church' and the part theologians have had to play in the church since its very creation vis a vis The Church fathers and ecumenical councils of the Church. The same goes with judging and condemning heresy or purging onself of heretical thought.

Except that is left to Theologians. The Faith is simple. If you stick to the simple basics then all of those heresies wil not effect you. Legitimate theological discussion is carried on in the Church by those with license, not us.

tim

There's nothing wrong with us discussing these matters and frankly given the state of the Church today it would be somewhat negligent to completely ignore the issue, certainly we shouldn't necessarily focus on heresies but there is nothing wrong in discussing them. A good example is the Social reign of Jesus Christ, the participation of lay people is essential in it and thus so is a good understanding and discussion of it. As for basic things even they can be corrupted think of the luminous mysteries for example or the appaling meditations that are often provided by the modern Church aside of course from the most basic thing of all, the mass itself being corrupted.
Reply
#34
My main point is that modernism is the synthesis of all heresies. It is all heresies to all men. You try to pin it down, and it will move (i.e., "evolve"). That's why I say measure by the Faith. It is the north star that guides us in virtue, and in discerning error. If you're on that measure, you aren't straying into modernist waters, let alone unconsciously. Maybe more to Alphonsus' point is modernity. My priest says that we are quite okay with rejecting modernism, but not at all deft at looking at modernity and seeing the errors and snares there. We are in a trance. I happen to agree. Modernity presents to us a very fine looking table of poisonous items.
Reply
#35
(01-23-2012, 01:58 PM)Scriptorium Wrote:
My main point is that modernism is the synthesis of all heresies. It is all heresies to all men. You try to pin it down, and it will move (i.e., "evolve").
That's why I say measure by the Faith. It is the north star that guides us in virtue, and in discerning error. If you're on that measure, you aren't straying into modernist waters, let alone unconsciously. Maybe more to Alphonsus' point is modernity. My priest says that we are quite okay with rejecting modernism, but not at all deft at looking at modernity and seeing the errors and snares there. We are in a trance. I happen to agree. Modernity presents to us a very fine looking table of poisonous items.

Oh wow. Well said, thank you. That explains the problems I've been having trying to discuss things with some of my modern Catholic friends. *doesn't feel quite as crazy and inadequate at explaining and debating things anymore*
Reply
#36
One of the first things for someone trying to purge themselves of modernism is to look up The Syllabus of Errors.  It's on FE somewhere.  I think several of the popes have said it's "synthesis of all heresies" or something very similar.  Anyway, look at its result compared to all previous heresies.
Reply
#37
(01-22-2012, 09:04 AM)TrentCath Wrote: Most of the people I know are unconscious modernists, there's a pretty easy to find out, simply ask them about 'The social reign of Our Lord Jesus Christ', if this  ???  is their response

???
Reply
#38
(01-25-2012, 12:28 AM)Silouan Wrote:
(01-22-2012, 09:04 AM)TrentCath Wrote: Most of the people I know are unconscious modernists, there's a pretty easy to find out, simply ask them about 'The social reign of Our Lord Jesus Christ', if this  ???  is their response

???

http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius11/P11PRIMA.HTM
Reply
#39
(01-23-2012, 11:40 AM)Tim Wrote: To riff on Scriptorium a little, I was fortunate in an odd way. I was formed before the onslaught which followed Vatican II. I quit the Church during the changes for two reasons, I was a sinner, and I couldn't take the new. I went into the wilderness, but somewhere deep in my soul, what I had been taught still guided me. I returned many, many years later, having been a lot like Rip Van Winkle I was now awake.  After returning to the Church what I had been taught re-emerged, and I became whole.

What I did was steer clear from holding positions and arguing pro and con concerning the scandals and the heresies we live in. I'm certain a left handed way, to be as stained as the modernists, is we lay men going into batttle on those issues. They are slippery more than eels, and the Devil is a gajillion times smarter than we are and he will get us going side ways until we are in his camp and don't even know it.

Most importantly, it is Catholic to concentrate on what we should and are capable of doing. Prayer in all of it's forms is our job. The Office, the Rosary, the Chaplet of Divine Mercy, Devotion to the Sacred Heart, and on and on, these are the way we can defeat this. Our puny reasoning is not. We are cursed from Original Sin and one of the effects is we are stupid compared to before. Our minds have been dimmed, and somehow the Devil makes us believe we are smart enough to take him on in that arena. Horse Feathers.

There is a "payday" coming, and those responsible for losing all of these souls will get what they deserve. What we should be doing is explaining to folks what Catholic is in it's simplest terms, like in the Baltimore Catechism, and admonishing them to stay away from all other stuff.
Trying to teach what is an is not modernism is insane. To Scriptorium's point judge your self by what is Catholic not by if infected by modernisn. Christ said His yoke is light. A yoke is custom made for two oxen. Christ knew this he made them and  one is extant, today. He also is telling us He is the othe Ox. One ox can not do it.

tim

tim

I agree with that view there in bold. We must KNOW what orthodox Catholicism is, and we must live it.

Good post sir.
Reply
#40
As someone else said I would be a recovering modernist. After all I do come from an Anglican background. :grin:
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)