My experience at the NO
#33
(01-25-2012, 09:15 PM)JMartyr Wrote:
(01-25-2012, 07:54 PM)TrentCath Wrote:
(01-25-2012, 06:13 PM)City Smurf Wrote: And one last thing.  The liturgy as contained in the Roman Missal currently for use in the Ordinary Form, is not inherently evil or invalid.  The Church could not give us such.  You are then tredding the muddy roads of sedevacantism, schism, etc.

This claim is  :deadhorse:

I hear it over and over and over again, but I have not found one single person who can cite me an authoritative source to back this principle up, until they do I'm afraid its an excuse made up by those who have a false understanding of the Church's indefectibility.

Regarding the NO as Archbisbhop Lefebvre said 'Contra factum non fit argumentum. Against the facts there is no argument. The facts are there before our eyes. So, we have to conclude that when our Lord spoke of help until the end of time, he did not exclude periods of darkness and a time of Passion for his mystical Spouse' (Though he said it regarding popes and not the liturgy, it could as much be said about the liturgy as the Popes)

The fruits of the NO are evident, loss of faith, irreverence to our lord, a blurring of the line between the priesthood and the laity, a loss of what it means to be priest, sacrilege and the 'auto-demolition of the church'. The fact it was designed to convey the message of Vatican II and to remove 'anything too catholic' is reason enough to be wary of it, let alone the in depth studies done on it as shown by 'The Ottaviani Intervention' to name but one.

Against these facts it is no good claiming 'such and such isnt possible', one must also demonstrate this with authority and preferably facts.
No Pope before Paul VI has dared to create a new rite of Mass. That the Church's indefectibility is affected by the "evilness" of the NO is a strawman.

This is nonsense.  The Tridentine rite did not exist in 30 ad.  For that matter it didn't exist in 200 ad.  If you read any reputable text, secular or religious, on reformation history, look at the Central European reactions to the "forced" introduction of the TLM by the Jesuits and other agents of the Counter reformation in traditional parishes.  Liturgical diversity was widespread, and in many cases heretical, but that didn't make it any easier for German communities to welcome a strict and uniform rite that had been unfamiliar for generations.
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Messages In This Thread
My experience at the NO - by Petertherock - 01-25-2012, 10:45 AM
Re: My experience at the NO - by Protrident - 01-25-2012, 10:49 AM
Re: My experience at the NO - by Tim - 01-25-2012, 10:51 AM
Re: My experience at the NO - by Mithrandylan - 01-25-2012, 10:55 AM
Re: My experience at the NO - by SaintAndrew - 01-25-2012, 10:59 AM
Re: My experience at the NO - by SimplyCatholic - 01-25-2012, 12:17 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by NOtard - 01-25-2012, 12:30 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by Petertherock - 01-25-2012, 12:51 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by Petertherock - 01-25-2012, 12:54 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by SaintAndrew - 01-25-2012, 01:00 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by JoniCath - 01-25-2012, 01:26 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by newyorkcatholic - 01-25-2012, 01:37 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by CaptCrunch73 - 01-25-2012, 01:51 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by Petertherock - 01-25-2012, 02:17 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by Petertherock - 01-25-2012, 02:25 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by alicewyf - 01-25-2012, 03:23 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by The Curt Jester - 01-25-2012, 03:31 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by JayneK - 01-25-2012, 03:33 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by SimplyCatholic - 01-25-2012, 05:59 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by City Smurf - 01-25-2012, 06:13 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by TrentCath - 01-25-2012, 07:54 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by TrentCath - 01-25-2012, 07:56 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by Petertherock - 01-25-2012, 08:25 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by Revixit - 01-25-2012, 08:46 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by Justin - 01-25-2012, 09:15 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by Revixit - 01-25-2012, 09:37 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by Norbert - 01-25-2012, 09:43 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by TrentCath - 01-25-2012, 09:45 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by TrentCath - 01-25-2012, 09:46 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by TrentCath - 01-25-2012, 09:47 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by Tapatio - 01-25-2012, 09:49 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by Norbert - 01-25-2012, 09:50 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by TrentCath - 01-25-2012, 09:51 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by TrentCath - 01-25-2012, 09:53 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by Tapatio - 01-25-2012, 09:56 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by Justin - 01-25-2012, 09:56 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by Norbert - 01-25-2012, 10:29 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by TrentCath - 01-25-2012, 11:32 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by Norbert - 01-26-2012, 12:19 AM
Re: My experience at the NO - by Whitey - 01-26-2012, 12:26 AM
Re: My experience at the NO - by TrentCath - 01-26-2012, 12:38 AM
Re: My experience at the NO - by Tapatio - 01-26-2012, 03:00 AM
Re: My experience at the NO - by GottmitunsAlex - 01-26-2012, 03:22 AM
Re: My experience at the NO - by TrentCath - 01-26-2012, 09:35 AM
Re: My experience at the NO - by Laetare - 01-26-2012, 01:50 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by TrentCath - 01-26-2012, 03:05 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by NOtard - 01-26-2012, 03:12 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by TrentCath - 01-26-2012, 03:17 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by TrentCath - 01-26-2012, 03:22 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by Someone1776 - 01-26-2012, 03:39 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by Norbert - 01-26-2012, 04:12 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by Laetare - 01-26-2012, 04:37 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by Petertherock - 01-26-2012, 06:56 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by TrentCath - 01-26-2012, 07:59 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by TrentCath - 01-26-2012, 08:00 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by JayneK - 01-26-2012, 08:29 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by TrentCath - 01-26-2012, 08:32 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by Mithrandylan - 01-26-2012, 08:33 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by JayneK - 01-26-2012, 08:35 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by Mithrandylan - 01-26-2012, 08:39 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by Justin - 01-26-2012, 09:41 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by Someone1776 - 01-26-2012, 09:46 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by Mithrandylan - 01-26-2012, 09:50 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by TrentCath - 01-26-2012, 10:20 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by TrentCath - 01-26-2012, 10:22 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by Mithrandylan - 01-26-2012, 10:26 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by Norbert - 01-26-2012, 10:42 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by Dewi - 01-26-2012, 10:55 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by Mithrandylan - 01-26-2012, 11:00 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by JayneK - 01-26-2012, 11:06 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by Petertherock - 01-26-2012, 11:12 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by GottmitunsAlex - 01-26-2012, 11:19 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by Mithrandylan - 01-26-2012, 11:22 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by GottmitunsAlex - 01-26-2012, 11:25 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by Someone1776 - 01-26-2012, 11:26 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by GottmitunsAlex - 01-26-2012, 11:28 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by Someone1776 - 01-26-2012, 11:32 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by GottmitunsAlex - 01-26-2012, 11:35 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by GottmitunsAlex - 01-26-2012, 11:39 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by Mithrandylan - 01-26-2012, 11:41 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by GottmitunsAlex - 01-26-2012, 11:41 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by Someone1776 - 01-26-2012, 11:42 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by GottmitunsAlex - 01-26-2012, 11:44 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by GottmitunsAlex - 01-26-2012, 11:45 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by Someone1776 - 01-26-2012, 11:50 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by Someone1776 - 01-26-2012, 11:51 PM
Re: My experience at the NO - by GottmitunsAlex - 01-27-2012, 12:10 AM
Re: My experience at the NO - by Someone1776 - 01-27-2012, 12:11 AM
Re: My experience at the NO - by Mithrandylan - 01-27-2012, 12:14 AM
Re: My experience at the NO - by GottmitunsAlex - 01-27-2012, 12:22 AM
Re: My experience at the NO - by Mithrandylan - 01-27-2012, 12:25 AM
Re: My experience at the NO - by GottmitunsAlex - 01-27-2012, 12:28 AM
Re: My experience at the NO - by Someone1776 - 01-27-2012, 12:28 AM
Re: My experience at the NO - by Someone1776 - 01-27-2012, 12:29 AM
Re: My experience at the NO - by GottmitunsAlex - 01-27-2012, 12:32 AM
Re: My experience at the NO - by Someone1776 - 01-27-2012, 12:37 AM
Re: My experience at the NO - by GottmitunsAlex - 01-27-2012, 12:38 AM
Re: My experience at the NO - by Justin - 01-27-2012, 06:58 AM
Re: My experience at the NO - by TrentCath - 01-27-2012, 07:39 AM
Re: My experience at the NO - by newyorkcatholic - 01-27-2012, 10:00 AM
Re: My experience at the NO - by TrentCath - 01-27-2012, 10:08 AM
Re: My experience at the NO - by newyorkcatholic - 01-27-2012, 10:57 AM
Re: My experience at the NO - by Norbert - 01-27-2012, 03:39 PM



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