A Modern Plague: Possible Chastisement Scenario
#21
(01-27-2012, 08:31 PM)Guardian Wrote:
(01-27-2012, 06:57 PM)verenaerin Wrote:
(01-27-2012, 05:56 PM)Guardian Wrote:
(01-27-2012, 05:43 PM)kingtheoden Wrote:
(01-27-2012, 03:25 PM)Guardian Wrote:
(01-27-2012, 12:11 PM)Tim Wrote: Surrendering to God's will is what it is.

tim

Surrendering yes, but not wishing or praying for it to occur. 

If you know something is going to happen, do you pray that you will be brought through it or that it will go away?  For me, I believe the warning of Fatima as it is a consistant development of other warnings.  Great visionaries, like St. Padre Pio, foresaw a great punishment too. 

When Europe was uniformly Christian and its governments Catholic monarchs, there were chastisements from time to time for relatively lesser transgressions.  Can we really look around today, especially if we accept Fatima, and think there will be anything but a chastisement?  I think it is more fitting that, when we approach this topic in our prayers, we pray for mercy and that we learn from a mitigated, lessened chastisement than pray that none happen.

Every day I pray for Christ's mercy on my soul and those of my family and loved ones.  I know sooner or later the chastisment is going to happen, and I pray that God will be merciful to me when it does.   

(01-26-2012, 01:08 AM)verenaerin Wrote: Many times I wish for something to happen. When I think about all those babies being murdered in abortions, or how pedophilia is so rampant in our society, the only thing I see as a solution is Divine intervention. Kinda like in the Greek (I think) plays when the hand of God comes down and removes the problem.

Its possible I'm misinterpretting this, but it sounded like they were praying for the God to come down and end the suffering of the innocent by wiping out, cleansing, destroying, (insert your own adjective) all the evildoers.  Yes, pray and sacrifice for the end to abortion, but I don't think praying for the end of the world, or a "lessened chastisement" is necessarily the logical course of action. 
There is a difference between the end of the world and a chastisement. I don't pray for the end of the world. I don't limit God in how He decides to defend his most innocent. He could incinerate pedophiles, convert them Saul/Paul style, whatever. The point is not what is done to them, the point is the protection of our most vulnerable.

So....now I'm limiting God because I pray for His mercy instead of praying for a chastisement? That makes sense. 

Protection for the unborn is paramount.  Got it.  There are millions of helpless little babies being slaughtered daily.  Got it.  We both want and pray for God to intervene.   If He decides that the best way to get the job done is to incinerate them then that's His choice; I absolutely don't presume to know His plan or tell God how best way to go about things.  I just don't "wish" or pray for a chastisement as a way to solve the problem which is what you said in your original post. 

"Dear God, my neighbor has committed terrible sins against me and against the rest of mankind.  Please come down and annihilate him.  Or maybe instead just chastise him.  Take away everything he owns and cast him into the street penniless because he deserves it." Really?

With a thought God could snuff out every person who has ever worked in an abortion clinic.  But with that same thought, He could reverse certain laws therefore totally ending abortion and getting our country back on track.... I choose to pray for His mercy rather than His vengeance.

I am not judging in any way how you choose to pray or your perspective on how to pray, so stop thinking that I am. I said that I don't put limits on God in the sense that I don't ask for a specific solution to this particular situation, because I don't know what that is.

(01-27-2012, 08:31 PM)Guardian Wrote: "Dear God, my neighbor has committed terrible sins against me and against the rest of mankind.  Please come down and annihilate him.  Or maybe instead just chastise him.  Take away everything he owns and cast him into the street penniless because he deserves it." Really?

You are seriously over reaching and putting words in my mouth.

(01-27-2012, 08:31 PM)Guardian Wrote: With a thought God could snuff out every person who has ever worked in an abortion clinic.  But with that same thought, He could reverse certain laws therefore totally ending abortion and getting our country back on track.... I choose to pray for His mercy rather than His vengeance.

That sounds familiar...

(01-27-2012, 06:57 PM)verenaerin Wrote: He could incinerate pedophiles, convert them Saul/Paul style, whatever.

I pray that God's will be done, no matter what it is. If you want to pray for something more specific, good for you.
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#22
God also punishes us by giving us the leaders we deserve and this includes in the Church.  That's a thought many a trad, including me, could spend hours and hours meditating upon.  So what have WE done to deserve the crowd of largely confused and feckless shepherds we currently have?  Yes, it's a sobering thought when we start to realize we ourselves might have a large portion of responsibility for the current state of the world.

I'm still praying for no chastisement...BUT...God's will be done, even if it contradicts mine.  sad
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#23
(01-27-2012, 08:53 PM)DrBombay Wrote: God also punishes us by giving us the leaders we deserve and this includes in the Church.  That's a thought many a trad, including me, could spend hours and hours meditating upon.  So what have WE done to deserve the crowd of largely confused and feckless shepherds we currently have?  Yes, it's a sobering thought when we start to realize we ourselves might have a large portion of responsibility for the current state of the world.

I'm still praying for no chastisement...BUT...God's will be done, even if it contradicts mine.   sad

Its true. Look how crappy all of us are and we have a direct line to sanctifying grace. We have no excuse.
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#24
Guardian, I think you are misinterpreting what some of us are trying to communicate.

It is not like we are actively praying for a chastisement.  Rather, in the prayer routine for many of us in our hearts we accept to some degree that God a) has punished populations b) permitted natural calamities that stem from the Fall c) we are in arguably the most wicked, out of control, and most anthropocentric epoch with the exception to the moment prior to Christ entering the world.

For me, this will come up at the conclusion of each decade of the Rosary.  We pray that all souls might be led to Heaven; this has a critical aspect being a cry for mercy, but as a sort of last-ditch tertiary backup wherever possible  Why?  Well, we know that many people will never be Baptized before death and many who were Baptized were done so illicitly and had no connection to the Church after the age of reason.  And of course, many Catholics abuse the Faith horribly.

Another component of my prayer routine is the general plea for mercy; in my heart, I don't have any question that there will be a front and center general punishment eventually for the West for any number of things (culture of pornography, celebration of homosexuality, contraception... or perhaps the abortions of tens of millions.)  This can come as a massive war, disease, famine, natural disasters, civil war, etc. 

When a society gets into fist fights and shoot outs over cheap junk made in Chinese slave shops, but is participating in or indifferent to the war on the Church, and this society cries out 'Lord, Lord' when it is easy and convenient, it will get wet and sandy eventually.  So, per my conscience, it would be disordered to explicitly pray against the foretold chastisement; it would be more fitting and useful to pray for mercy that it might be short and rapidly convert us.
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#25
Wet and sandy.  Hooyah. 
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#26
Asking for God's mercy is not avoiding the Chastisement, but His Mercy will come in judging us at our deaths. I have a routine at night because I can't sleep when I wake I say a few prayers and end with the Cor Jesu Sacratissimum miserere nobis 3x. I'm praying for His mercy which is not about avoiding death but going to Heaven. I have tons of family and old friends that do not pray anymore, and these are the ones especially I pray for. Our Lady said that many souls go to hell because they have no one that prays for them. Whether the Chastisement comes or not our deaths will come, and we have no idea when.

tim
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#27
(01-27-2012, 08:46 PM)verenaerin Wrote:
(01-27-2012, 08:31 PM)Guardian Wrote:
(01-27-2012, 06:57 PM)verenaerin Wrote:
(01-27-2012, 05:56 PM)Guardian Wrote:
(01-27-2012, 05:43 PM)kingtheoden Wrote:
(01-27-2012, 03:25 PM)Guardian Wrote:
(01-27-2012, 12:11 PM)Tim Wrote: Surrendering to God's will is what it is.

tim

Surrendering yes, but not wishing or praying for it to occur. 

If you know something is going to happen, do you pray that you will be brought through it or that it will go away?  For me, I believe the warning of Fatima as it is a consistant development of other warnings.  Great visionaries, like St. Padre Pio, foresaw a great punishment too. 

When Europe was uniformly Christian and its governments Catholic monarchs, there were chastisements from time to time for relatively lesser transgressions.  Can we really look around today, especially if we accept Fatima, and think there will be anything but a chastisement?  I think it is more fitting that, when we approach this topic in our prayers, we pray for mercy and that we learn from a mitigated, lessened chastisement than pray that none happen.

Every day I pray for Christ's mercy on my soul and those of my family and loved ones.  I know sooner or later the chastisment is going to happen, and I pray that God will be merciful to me when it does.   

(01-26-2012, 01:08 AM)verenaerin Wrote: Many times I wish for something to happen. When I think about all those babies being murdered in abortions, or how pedophilia is so rampant in our society, the only thing I see as a solution is Divine intervention. Kinda like in the Greek (I think) plays when the hand of God comes down and removes the problem.

Its possible I'm misinterpretting this, but it sounded like they were praying for the God to come down and end the suffering of the innocent by wiping out, cleansing, destroying, (insert your own adjective) all the evildoers.  Yes, pray and sacrifice for the end to abortion, but I don't think praying for the end of the world, or a "lessened chastisement" is necessarily the logical course of action. 
There is a difference between the end of the world and a chastisement. I don't pray for the end of the world. I don't limit God in how He decides to defend his most innocent. He could incinerate pedophiles, convert them Saul/Paul style, whatever. The point is not what is done to them, the point is the protection of our most vulnerable.

So....now I'm limiting God because I pray for His mercy instead of praying for a chastisement? That makes sense. 

Protection for the unborn is paramount.  Got it.  There are millions of helpless little babies being slaughtered daily.  Got it.  We both want and pray for God to intervene.   If He decides that the best way to get the job done is to incinerate them then that's His choice; I absolutely don't presume to know His plan or tell God how best way to go about things.  I just don't "wish" or pray for a chastisement as a way to solve the problem which is what you said in your original post. 

"Dear God, my neighbor has committed terrible sins against me and against the rest of mankind.  Please come down and annihilate him.  Or maybe instead just chastise him.  Take away everything he owns and cast him into the street penniless because he deserves it." Really?

With a thought God could snuff out every person who has ever worked in an abortion clinic.  But with that same thought, He could reverse certain laws therefore totally ending abortion and getting our country back on track.... I choose to pray for His mercy rather than His vengeance.

I am not judging in any way how you choose to pray or your perspective on how to pray, so stop thinking that I am. I said that I don't put limits on God in the sense that I don't ask for a specific solution to this particular situation, because I don't know what that is.

(01-27-2012, 08:31 PM)Guardian Wrote: "Dear God, my neighbor has committed terrible sins against me and against the rest of mankind.  Please come down and annihilate him.  Or maybe instead just chastise him.  Take away everything he owns and cast him into the street penniless because he deserves it." Really?

You are seriously over reaching and putting words in my mouth.

(01-27-2012, 08:31 PM)Guardian Wrote: With a thought God could snuff out every person who has ever worked in an abortion clinic.  But with that same thought, He could reverse certain laws therefore totally ending abortion and getting our country back on track.... I choose to pray for His mercy rather than His vengeance.

That sounds familiar...

(01-27-2012, 06:57 PM)verenaerin Wrote: He could incinerate pedophiles, convert them Saul/Paul style, whatever.

I pray that God's will be done, no matter what it is. If you want to pray for something more specific, good for you.

My apologies, I didn't mean to put words in your mouth.  If I came across as rude I'm sorry too; It sounds like we're on the same page.  Peace? Smile
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#28
(01-28-2012, 12:17 AM)Guardian Wrote: My apologies, I didn't mean to put words in your mouth.  If I came across as rude I'm sorry too; It sounds like we're on the same page.  Peace? Smile

No prob. We're cool.

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