The real St. Francis of Assisi
#1
Greetings brethren in Christ,

This one got me chuckling:



Blessings,

TraditionalistThomas.
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#2
I chuckled pretty hard.  Slight side note: every gay guy ever in my generation seems to have St. Francis as a patron now. 
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#3
Thank you so much for posting this (and to Michael Voris)  The false protrayal of St. Francis is one of my favourite falsehoods to expose.  Here is a collection of some actual quotes from him compared to the stereotypes:http://forum.catholic.org/viewtopic.php?f=103&t=47503&hilit=st.+francis+really+say

Here are a few of my favourites:
Quote:  No friar is to preach contrary to the norms and the doctrine of the Holy Roman Church, and none is to preach unless permission is granted by his Minister. The Minister is to be careful not to grant permission to any friar without careful evaluation. Yet all friars should preach with their works. And no Minister or preacher is to take upon himself the administration of the friars or the office of preaching, but whenever he is ordered to do so, he is to leave his office without argument. First Rule of St. Francis

Quote:    All friars shall be Catholics, and shall live and speak as Catholics. Indeed if any errs from the Catholic Faith and life by his words or actions, and will not amend his ways, he is to be expelled from our fraternity altogether. And let us regard all clergy and religious as our masters in those matters concerning to the salvation of the soul and in all that is not contrary to our religion, and let us venerate in the Lord their order, their office, and their authority. First Rule of St. Francis

Quote:    And I order that the Ministers under obedience request the Lord Pope of one of the Cardinals of the holy Roman Church to be governor, protector, and corrector of this fraternity, so that we may always be subject and under the feet of the same Holy Church and firm in the Catholic Faith (Col 1,23), and observe poverty, humility, and the holy Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ as we have solemnly vowed. Rule of St. Francis

Quote:I beg you more than if it were a question of myself that, when it is becoming and you will deem it convenient, you humbly beseech the clerics to venerate above all the most holy Body and Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ and His Holy Name and written words which sanctify the body. They ought to hold the chalices, corporals, ornaments of the altar, and all that pertain to the Sacrifice as precious. And if the most holy Body of the Lord is left very poorly in any place, let It be moved by them to a precious place, according to the command of the Church and let It be carried with great veneration and administered to others with discretion. The Names also and written words of the Lord, In whatever unclean place they may be found, let them be collected, and then they must be put in a proper place. And in every time you preach, admonish the people about penance and that no one can be saved except he that receives the most holy Body and Blood of the Lord. And whenever It is being sacrificed by the priest on the altar and It is being carried to any place, let all the people give praise, honor, and glory to the Lord God Living and True on their bended knees. And let His praise be announced and preached to all peoples so that at every hour and when the bells are rung praise and thanks shall always be given to the Almighty God by all the people through the whole earth.

He was not an anti-authoritarian hippie.  He highly valued obedience to authority and also stressed the importance of the Eucharist.  The way that most people think about St.Francis is not much like him at all.

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#4
I can't stand the way Voris continues to contend the masculine and feminine like two pit bulls in a fighting pen. He doesn't just blame feminism for everything, he doesn't like the feminine, considers it weak and wishy-washy. I watched all six parts of his "masculinity" series and I might have to make another thread to vent my opinion as to why his views are so very flawed.

Anyway, those words of St. Francis were echoed by Catherine of Siena. Teresa of Avila too. It's not a “masculine” speech, just an orthodox Catholic one.

Of course, I realize St. Francis is famous for being the “peaceful man by the bird bath.” That's because he wrote enough canticles to the creatures to merit that image, though I admit it's not a complete picture. What we need is a COMPLETE picture, not a so-called masculine one vs. a feminine one.
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#5
There you go, henpecking on Michael again.
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#6
(01-30-2012, 05:57 PM)Adam Wayne Wrote: There you go, henpecking on Michael again.

Look at that video again and tell me it's not an insult to the feminine.

And I don't appreciate your henpecking remark.
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#7
(01-30-2012, 05:52 PM)StrictCatholicGirl Wrote: Of course, I realize St. Francis is famous for being the “peaceful man by the bird bath.” That's because he wrote enough canticles to the creatures to merit that image, though I admit it's not a complete picture. What we need is a COMPLETE picture, not a so-called masculine one vs. a feminine one.

It is not a matter of things are being left out of the popular perception.  The perception is wrong.  The false St. Francis is made the patron of liberal causes.  They think of him as a free spirit who communes with nature, a man who would be opposed to liturgy and hierarchy. Just about every idea people have about St. Francis is wrong, other than thinking he appreciated God's creation.  

The false St. Francis is the liberal ideal.  Almost by definition, that is something feminized.  Of course, women can also have orthodox faith, but that faith is not a feminine faith.  Voris is making a reasonable distinction here.
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#8
When I first watched his series on masculinity and the Church, I'll admit at first I felt resentful and uncomfortable. But as I watched more I came to realize that he is right. He wasn't railing against females, but the feminization (not femalization) of the Church. Feminine =/= women.
It's still an uncomfortable topic though, but not because it's bad or wrong, but because it's become taboo. Feminists have made it taboo to talk in terms of the feminine and the masculine. They also wrongly frame the issue as masculine versus feminine. That's very wrong.
We *need* both. They are necessary parts of human nature. It is wrong to assume one is superior to the other. However, it is just as wrong to make them the same. Voris made a good point with the dollar bill vs the four quarters. They are equal, but they are not the same.
When masculinity is needed femininity will simply not do, and vice versa. That does not make femininity inferior, just different, and you can't replace one with the other. Saying this does not make one anti-feminine.

As for this particular video, I didn't find it offensive to women or the feminine. However, I believe that feminizing St. Francis to the extreme he has been is offensive to the masculine.
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#9
(01-30-2012, 06:23 PM)knittycat Wrote: I believe that feminizing St. Francis to the extreme he has been is offensive to the masculine.

It is offensive to orthodox Catholicism. 
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#10
(01-30-2012, 06:12 PM)JayneK Wrote: The false St. Francis is the liberal ideal.  Almost by definition, that is something feminized.  Of course, women can also have orthodox faith, but that faith is not a feminine faith.  Voris is making a reasonable distinction here.

Francis' idea of “living the gospel” and forming the friars minor was very radical in its time. What they might call liberal in the sense that it was innovative and groundbreaking, a departure from the tradition of monasticism. Yes, he was a loyal son of the church and obedient to the Pope. Is that a feminine or liberal attitude? Is it a masculine or conservative attitude? We shouldn't use those labels in Catholicism. You are either orthodox or you aren't. I don't know what you mean by orthodox faith being “not a feminine faith.” The truth is the truth. Perhaps certain methods of teaching the faith can be aggressive or passive, exclusive or inclusive, or somewhere in between. I agree with Voris that the hippie-izing of Francis is false and unfortune, but we don't need to deny that he sang songs to Brother Wolf and Sister Stars. Again, we need a  complete picture of Francis. His approach and spirituality was his own. 
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