Mary
#11
Yes, perversion is correct.
Mary Co-Redemptrix, is the final Marian dogma waiting to be proclaimed.
John Paul II called Mary by this name.
Fatima visionary Sister Lucia Santos FULLY believed in this title for Mary.
Mother Teresa and Padre Pio BOTH believed Mary to be the Co-Redemptrix.
"Co" meaning "with", not "equal to".
It's complicated, but to try and stop that dogma from being proclaimed, liberal scripture scholars have grossly mistranslated Gen 3:15.
Tampering with "she" in Gen 3:15 is the first step in the attack against Mary.
How VITAL is Mary "crushing" Satan's head to our faith?
In Pope Pius IX's Immaculate Conception dogmatic proclamation - Ineffabilis Deus - he used the real Vulgate translation of Gen 3:15.
Pope Pius XII did the same in 1950 with Munificentissimus Deus, the dogma of the Assumption.
"SHE shall crush the head of the serpent."
The hideous twisting of the true Hebrew to Latin translation of Genesis 3:15 is the work of Lucifer himself.............
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#12
Heres a sentence to have handy.
God isnt the only one who gave his only begotten son for your salvation.
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#13
(01-31-2012, 10:20 PM)Adam_Michael Wrote:
(01-31-2012, 06:55 PM)SaintAndrew Wrote: "I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel." THAT, is the translation of St. Jerome when he formulated the Vulgate, which is the Douay-Rheims version.

Understood.

You used the word perversion. That leads me to believe that someone or something has been purposely mistranslating the verse to meet their own nefarious ends.  Is that the case? If so could you educate me a little?

It is a way Protestants can ignore/ insult the BVM. "She" is replaced with "He". So they attribute that verse to Our Lord. If that is not straight from Hell, I don't know what is.
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#14
(02-01-2012, 09:34 AM)verenaerin Wrote:
(01-31-2012, 10:20 PM)Adam_Michael Wrote:
(01-31-2012, 06:55 PM)SaintAndrew Wrote: "I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel." THAT, is the translation of St. Jerome when he formulated the Vulgate, which is the Douay-Rheims version.

Understood.

You used the word perversion. That leads me to believe that someone or something has been purposely mistranslating the verse to meet their own nefarious ends.  Is that the case? If so could you educate me a little?

It is a way Protestants can ignore/ insult the BVM. "She" is replaced with "He". So they attribute that verse to Our Lord. If that is not straight from Hell, I don't know what is.
I called my Protty on this to show him that by changing this one word defeats the whole protty dogma of solus scriptura. Because if some sinner in the 1500s could just change a word to promote an agenda then they were no better then the Jahova witnesses because by changing a single word whole entire meanings and faith can be undermined then the bible is not trustworthy. It actually worked to my argument because it bothered him so much that he looked up some Rabbi to ask about Genesis. The Rabbi said the term used is not HE or HER, but gender neutral...I said why would you take the word of an antichristian?
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#15
One outstanding declaration made by Mary that the heretics (Protestants) ought to look deep and hard and seriously put into question whether this in any way affects them and  do they have any concern:

Quote: Luke 1:
47. And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
48. Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid: for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed

Is the prophecy fulfilled in them?  And as the D-R annotates:  "Or do they call her blessed, that derogate what they can from her graces, blessings, and all her honor?" 

As stated above, it is She who will crush the head of the serpent, the meaning of which, She is  "The Vanquisher of all heresies," truly making her co-redemptorix.
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#16
This is amazing stuff. I never knew that protestants were doing this. 

A few protestants I often talk to have incredible knowledge of the bible, albeit a heretical knowledge.  I have gotten in debates with them and they have crushed me many times and I walked away feeling silly. Afterwards I always did research on how to refute their claims and in the long run came out a better apologist as result.

Can anybody guide me towards valid sources on how to argue the Catholic view on this? Sources that cover original language and translation methodology would be most helpful. 

Thanks!
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#17
(02-01-2012, 07:55 PM)Adam_Michael Wrote: This is amazing stuff. I never knew that protestants were doing this. 

A few protestants I often talk to have incredible knowledge of the bible, albeit a heretical knowledge.  I have gotten in debates with them and they have crushed me many times and I walked away feeling silly. Afterwards I always did research on how to refute their claims and in the long run came out a better apologist as result.

Can anybody guide me towards valid sources on how to argue the Catholic view on this? Sources that cover original language and translation methodology would be most helpful. 

Thanks!

You probably won't win this argument with your Protestant acquaintances, as the Hebrew word employed in the text is ambiguous.  In researching this issue, I found Jewish translators who translated the phrase involved as "it shall crush thy head," "he shall crush thy head," "they shall crush thy head," and "she shall crush thy head."  In other words, any one of those translations can fit the Hebrew, according to the treatise I read.

That said, the Church has, for many centuries, translated the phrase as "she shall crush thy head."  It stands to reason, as the beginning of the Bible speaks about the war between Our Lady and Satan, and the last book of the Bible reiterates that war.

Our Lady also came to buttress the "she" translation by appearing to Saint Catherine Laboure and having her spread devotion to the Miraculous Medal, which depicts Our Lady crushing the head of Satan.  Protestants, of course, would not accept such a thing.
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#18
Thanks for the information.

What tactic is currently being used to defend the Catholic position on this?
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#19
(02-02-2012, 10:50 AM)Adam_Michael Wrote: Thanks for the information.

What tactic is currently being used to defend the Catholic position on this?
One way I LOVE to splatter Prot heresy about Mary, is to tell them they think Jesus is a nobody. Just some guy.
Yep.
When speaking on Her power to go to God for us to intercede, Protestants always throw the classic - but Jesus said "nobody goes to the Father but through Me. So Mary can't intercede!!!!
I laugh. I tell them, I guess you don't see Jesus as GOD, then. The 2nd member of the Holy Trinity.
They say, "oh yes, we believe Jesus is God!!!!!"
I say, "well, then Mary can and does go to Her Son for us - WHO IS INFACT GOD."

It's interresting to say the words Mother of God to a Prot.

Their hatred of Mary is so thick, that they hate to confess that, yes, Jesus is Her Son.
And yes, He is God.
Common sense is the best weapon to bring Mary's reality to life, when defending Her.
"What She carried in Her womb, the entire universe could not contain." Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen
[Image: 260297_105487749544064_100002485186353_4...5104_n.jpg]
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#20
First tell the protty to stop just calling her just Mary and insist on at least Blessed Mary. Otherwise hes not a Bible believer after all

Ask the protty if he was going to make himself a plate of pancakes and he had 2 batches of flour to use....a buggy batch with some sand mixed in....or a batch of pure, clean sifted flour...which one would HE choose to make his pancakes with? Then say well I guess you think your more powerfull than God. If you being a sinner have enough wisdom to only use that which is pure for your pancakes...dont you think almighty all powerful omnipotent God would choose only the Purest of women to create His Son from?
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