Catholic 3DD, Great Monarch, Fatima prophecy
#1
Why do people take this seriously?  I mean, of course, they could be true, but step back for a minute.  NONE of this is even remotely hinted at in Scripture or Apostolic tradition.  So it's completely absent from Public Revelation.  Aside from being Christ-centered, what makes these prophecies any different from the whack-job New Age prophecies that we're headed to a new age of enlightenment, or this or that disaster to cleanse the earth, etc., etc.?  If there was anything important in any of this, or anything relevant to our spiritual life, why didn't Christ mention it or the Apostles record it anywhere?  It seems that many get so consumed by these prophecies that they forget the real point of the Gospel.  Rather than going to confession, receiving the sacraments, fasting and taking care of the poor, people are stocking up on blessed bees-wax candles and and plastic liners for their windows and vents.  I'm all for being prepared, even for the unlikely, but this smells an awful lot like new-age apocalyptic mumbo-jumbo to me.
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#2
I agree, Melkite. And often there are very traditional trads who end up consumed by these things, which have no strong foothold in Apostolic Tradition. And if they are right, it will make absolutely no practical difference to anybody. God wants us to live lives of Christian holiness every day, in sun or rain or darkness. It is at best a distraction, and at worst an illusion.

The West could do with a little bit of the East.
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#3
What makes you think none of this is alluded to in scripture? This is not the case. From the tenor of your post you have a predisposition against these matters, and have placed them in a category they do not actually belong.

In general, and this is only speaking generally -- I find people who are new to the Faith, or new to prophecy, because there is so much to cover, often have a predisposition to dismiss it all, rather than deal with it. It's too much. Somebody else's problem. Too much to sort through. Just find a way to put it aside rather than try to deal with it, is the reaction. And they find some who will help justify this view in the so-called 'neo-con' area, the minimalists, and those who like to think of the term 'private' in private revelation to mean it should be locked away and there can be no vice in not listening to it, or virtue in listening to it.

If this emotional motivation along with such statements is a reason why a person says something like the above -- it's not the right way and time to reorient. It might not be time, spiritually and studiously to deal with prophecy, but that does not mean one should speak badly of it in general.

We are explicitly instructed not to do so.

'Despise not prophecies.

But prove all things; hold fast that which is good.'

1 Thessalonians 5:20-21

'I clothe the heavens with blackness, and I make sackcloth their covering.'

Isaiah 50:3

'I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood.'

Revelation 6:12

...

Prophecy has its own particular conflicts and difficulties. One has to take care with it, especially because of problems with sources. But prophecy is very useful, especially prophecies that are related to 'types' and times, which show us how to approach such times.
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#4
Yes and No. The 3DD certainly is, and it is all consuming for many. In the other thread they were looking for DNA ! Shades of Dan Brown.

I disagree completely about Fatima. It was a warning specific to this time. All of what has been published prior to 2000, actually happened specifically as the BMV said it would. There is no secret hidden horse feathers which tickle the ears. Pope Benedict said it is palying out now and in the future. Pope John Paul II in his words, not Cardinal Bertone's, said he never did it. The portion called the "third secret" isn't a secret it hasn't been published in it's entirety.  To sum the portion which Our Lady said for the Pope to tell the world in 1960 has been only partially revealed. The Consecration of Russia has never taken place, yet. So, if we continue to ignore it past God's deadline we will be chastised. Case closed.

How can an apparition which fosters prayer, repentenance, the sacraments, and sacrifice lead you away from Faith ? We are not playing with secret codes or specualton here. Those that do not believe Her as God's messenger of warning to us in this time are mistaken.

tim 
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#5
Shin,  I'm not saying dismiss it all, I'm just saying the fact that people get so consumed with it makes me suspicious.  Like Tim is saying, if a prophecy leads someone to prayer, repentance and the sacraments, how can it be a bad thing?  If a prophecy leads someone to become so consumed with preparing for it that they leave out prayer, repentance and the sacraments (not that anyone here is doing that), how can that be a good thing?  Part of my discomfort with it is that when I was new to the faith, I was fascinated with prophecy and got so wrapped up in that I was a) planning and worrying over what was going to happen and how I could best make sure I lived through it and b) becoming more concerned  with how to survive fire falling from the sky than I was with getting my butt to confession.  Sure, part of this projecting my own experience on others, but I think the point remains - almost all of this is not even hinted at in divine revelation.  What is explicit in revelation, though, is Christ telling us not to worry about what tomorrow will bring, because today has enough worries of its own.  I'm not saying private revelation can't be true, and that all these prophecies are necessarily false.  But even if they are true, all the blessed beeswax candle in the world will not get you to heaven if you're caught outside when the 3DD happen if you aren't right with God.  I'm no one's spiritual advisor, but I still feel safe in assuming none of us, absolutely none of us, have sufficiently conquered sin in our lives that we can be focusing on what may or may not happen, and may not even happen in our life time.

Tim, perhaps including Fatima in that was a bad example.  Christ said to test a prophet by whether his prophecy comes true or not.  If the things that were said in Fatima have come true, that's strong evidence in its favor.  It wasn't my intent to call Fatima specifically into question.  I just put it in there because, superficially, it seems to sometimes draw the same hysteria that the prophecies of the 3DD and the great monarch and chastisement bring.  I know there is a verse or two in the bible that could potentially be referring to the 3DD, though if I remember it correctly it's not explicit enough to be considered definitive.  There is NOTHING in public revelation about a great monarch or a period of peace, though - that is entirely from private revelation.  So I guess I should revise (restate rather, just a little more clearly) what I said and ask, why should we be concerned with any prophecy if Christ himself wasn't concerned to warn us about it?  He did warn us about somethings in the future, why not others if they are so important?  That is, if knowing a great monarch will come, why is it not in the deposit of the apostolic faith?  If anyone saw anything, it was St. Paul and St. John, and they didn't mention it.  Sure, maybe it wasn't God's will that they personally should reveal it, but if not them, why some random farm girl in this or that countryside?  Everything we need to be saved is contained in public revelation, so why focus at all on private revelation until we have everything in order that public revelation suggests?
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#6
Melkite, I'm sure you weren't but I'm an NCO in Our Lady's very own Regiment. And I defend as any sargent with a good M-4 would. Sorry if I was curt.

You're right though when it takes looking and finding the secret  "x" to fulfill it, there's a good chance it's just a story. Here's a guy on just this stuff.
If you scroll down they have a free talk on Doomsday and some folks obsession with it. They're Coulombe and Biersach, and Gerard tipped us off.

http://www.tumblarhouse.com/audio.php

tim
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#7
(01-31-2012, 04:47 PM)Tim Wrote: Melkite, I'm sure you weren't but I'm an NCO in Our Lady's very own Regiment. And I defend as any sargent with a good M-4 would. Sorry if I was curt.

You're right though when it takes looking and finding the secret  "x" to fulfill it, there's a good chance it's just a story. Here's a guy on just this stuff.
If you scroll down they have a free talk on Doomsday and some folks obsession with it. They're Coulombe and Biersach, and Gerard tipped us off.

http://www.tumblarhouse.com/audio.php

tim

Wow, that looks like an awesome site!  I'm interested in listening to probably about 80% of those talks!  I'm gonna be busy!
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#8
Most of this hooplah comes from people taking apocalyptic symbolism literally, which it is most definitely NOT intended to be taken that way.

Stars falling from the sky, darkness, beasts of sea and land, moon turning to blood etc., etc. are all symbols - they are not literal - and they all have specific meanings in apocalyptic literature that are far and away from what meets the eye.

That is not to say that there won't be a "Three Days of Darkness," but it is not in the Scriptures.  Those verses that these people like to prescribe to such events are already long fulfilled (unless there is some very vague dual-prophesy at hand, but the major fulfillment is already said and done).
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#9
(01-31-2012, 05:09 PM)Melkite Wrote:
(01-31-2012, 04:47 PM)Tim Wrote: Melkite, I'm sure you weren't but I'm an NCO in Our Lady's very own Regiment. And I defend as any sargent with a good M-4 would. Sorry if I was curt.

You're right though when it takes looking and finding the secret  "x" to fulfill it, there's a good chance it's just a story. Here's a guy on just this stuff.
If you scroll down they have a free talk on Doomsday and some folks obsession with it. They're Coulombe and Biersach, and Gerard tipped us off.

http://www.tumblarhouse.com/audio.php

tim

Wow, that looks like an awesome site!  I'm interested in listening to probably about 80% of those talks!  I'm gonna be busy!

Tim beat me to it.  SO glad to see the Coulombe/Biersach talks catching steam on FE.

Yes, Coulombe makes a great point in the "Doomsday" talk where he basically says that God hasn't made a habit of leaving people to their own devices as far as "saving" them from a catastrophe.  For Noah, He simply said "Build an ark.  It should be this big.  You should put these animals on it."  He didn't tell him that he will need the skin of the tree, life that is not human and a measuring tape.  He told him to build a big old boat and fill it with animals. 

Similarly, if God's will is for you to live, you will.  If it isn't, you won't.  How many of the martyrs lived?
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Go thy ways, old Jack;
die when thou wilt, if manhood, good manhood, be
not forgot upon the face of the earth, then am I a
shotten herring. There live not three good men
unhanged in England; and one of them is fat and
grows old: God help the while! a bad world, I say.
I would I were a weaver; I could sing psalms or any
thing. A plague of all cowards, I say still.
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#10
"The death of the impenitent persecutors of the Church will take place during the three days of darkness. He who survives those three days of darkness and horror will see himself as if alone, because the earth will be covered with cadavers".

St. Gaspar del Bufalo

'God will send two punishments: one will be in the form of wars, revolutions and other evils; it shall originate on earth. The other will be sent from Heaven. There shall come over the whole earth an intense darkness lasting three days and three nights. Nothing will be visible, and the air will be laden with pestilence which will claim mainly, but not only, the enemies of religion..'

Bl. Anna-Maria Taigi

'There will come three days of complete darkness. Only blessed candles made of wax will give some light during this horrible darkness. One candle will last for three days, but they will not give light in the house of the Godless. Lightning will penetrate your houses, but it will not put out the blessed candles. Neither wind, nor storm, nor earthquake will put out the blessed candles.'

Marie de La Fraudais (19th-20th Century) [stigmatic]

'. . . the Great Monarch...He shall be a great captain and prince of holy men, who shall be called 'the holy Cross-bearers of Jesus Christ,' with whom he will destroy the Mahometan sect and the rest of the infidels. He shall annihilate all the heresies and tyrannies of the world. He shall reform the Church of God by means of his followers, who shall be the best men upon the earth in holiness, in arms, in science, and in every virtue... They shall obtain dominion over the whole world, both temporal and spiritual...'

St. Francis of Paola

'there will be a great Pope...This Pope shall have with him, the Great Monarch...This Great Monarch will assist the Pope in the reformation of the whole earth...All nations shall recognize the Holy See of Rome, and shall pay homage to the Pope. But after some considerable time fervor shall cool...which shall bring upon mankind the last and worse persecution of Anti-Christ...There shall be great carnage.'

St. Caesarius of Arles (6th century)

'The Great King will wage war till he is fourty years of age. . . He will assemble great armies, and hurl back the tyrants out of his empire.'

St. Cataldus (7th century)

'Certain Doctors truly say, that one of the kings of the Frankish [Roman] Empire shall possess it in its entirety ["ex integro"], which King shall live in the last time and shall be the greatest and last of kings. Who after he shall have happily governed his Kingdom, shall come to Jerusalem and lay down his sceptre and crown on Mount Olivet. He shall be the last and consummate [Emperor] of the Roman and Christian Empire.

And immediately thereupon [after he lays down his sceptre and crown], according to the sentence of Paul, they [the Doctors] say Antichrist shall come.'

St. Anselm (11th century)

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