Souls in heaven rejoicing at the sight of the damned?
#11
(02-05-2012, 12:17 PM)Laetare Wrote: I believe this is an exaggeration. When St. Peter says we exist to be made partakers of the divine nature, he means fully. The Christ, the Son of God, is incarnate for our sakes. The Incarnation is done by God for the whole of humanity, even knowing that some will die in sin. He is still incarnate for all men. If God says "my love, my dove, my beautiful one" to each soul, it is meant honestly and truly.

Those who get to Heaven will probably partake in something like sorrow over the damned, sharing the pain of loss over those dead souls with Christ: the God who cries, dies, and lives. Perhaps by justice we will rejoice, but by charity, which is God, we shall infinitely and eternally have compassionate sorrow for them, while yet retaining infinity and eternity as our joy. This is God, this is the divinity to which we are called ontologically by the Lord...

I don't know about this. The reason we speak of God crying is because it's the only way we are able to express anything about God --- in human terms. I don't know that it can be taken literally to mean He sorrows and cries over lost souls. HE loses nothing. He is complete and happy within Himself. We need to imagine Him as sorrowing so that we can translate His love for us in human terms but it's not necessarily accurate. Same goes for God laughing at and mocking the damned or even rejoicing for that matter. Those are very human terms.

Also what you posted seems to imply that there is loss felt in heaven. This would be contradictory to the fact that we have all happiness in possessing God. Although hard to imagine here on earth, the reality is that it wouldn't matter if it's your parents, brother, sister, spouse or child in hell, you would feel no loss. All of the those relationships on earth are but small foretastes of the happiness we will possess fully in God. The loss you would feel in imagining your spouse in hell right now is but a foretaste of the loss you would feel in forsaking God. It's all about Him. It always goes back to Him and no one else. This isn't to say we don't love and greatly appreciate our relationships here on earth, it's a realization of Who He is and what it means to possess Him fully in heaven. If such small foretastes, even wrought with all the trials and tribulations and instability of earth can be so intense and beautiful, What must He be? And for eternity? It's quite overwhelming really.

And again, He, being complete within Himself feels no loss. If we partake in His divinity as you pointed out, neither will we feel any loss. The loss is solely on the part of the damned and that is their greatest source of pain.

Another thing I think we forget, speaking of their pain, is that we imagine all the "suffering" they undergo while very often forgetting the hatred by which they are consumed. They certainly have no mercy on us and would have us damned alongside them in a heartbeat. Don't ever forget that. These aren't "poor unfortunate" souls. These are souls hardened by the choice of eternal hatred and evil. We would be much more prudent to keep any sense of compassion directed to the souls in purgatory.
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#12
It's quite in accord with my sig, which never fails to bring me tremendous comfort when I think of those blissfully conformed to this world. This is of course totally alien to our prevailing Oprahist sentimentalism, thus it's quite unacceptable to today's processed many.

Yes, we might say that one's level of discomfort concerning this delight in justice is directly proportionate to the extent to which one has been infected by Modernism.
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#13
  • There was a conversation between Fr. Silouan and a certain hermit, who declared with evident satisfaction: “God will punish all atheists! They will burn in everlasting fire.”

    Obviously upset, Fr. Silouan said: “Tell me, supposing you went to paradise, and there looked down and saw somebody burning in hell-fire – would you feel happy?”

    “It can’t be helped. It would be their own fault,” said the hermit.

    Fr. Silouan answered him with a sorrowful countenance: “Love could not bear that,” he said, “We must pray for all.”


    -St Silouan the Athonite
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#14
(02-05-2012, 02:28 PM)Silouan Wrote:
  • There was a conversation between Fr. Silouan and a certain hermit, who declared with evident satisfaction: “God will punish all atheists! They will burn in everlasting fire.”

    Obviously upset, Fr. Silouan said: “Tell me, supposing you went to paradise, and there looked down and saw somebody burning in hell-fire – would you feel happy?”

    “It can’t be helped. It would be their own fault,” said the hermit.

    Fr. Silouan answered him with a sorrowful countenance: “Love could not bear that,” he said, “We must pray for all.”


    -St Silouan the Athonite

Wasn't Silouan of the schismatic sect?
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#15
Yes, he is not a saint in the Roman Catholic Church.
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#16
(02-05-2012, 01:50 PM)Melkite Wrote:
(02-05-2012, 01:01 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: St. Thomas himself says as much.

It's a valid theological opinion, it's not "bullshit" but I've come to expect this kind of childish reactions from you, Melkite.

I'm sorry it bothers you so much that I'm not willing to show Aquinas the same unwavering deference as you, however, Scripture explicitly states that God wills none to perish.  If he does not will people to perish, then he is not in heaven eternally rejoicing at their suffering.  Insofar as Aquinas thought as much, he is wrong.  Anywhere that Aquinas contradicts Scripture, Aquinas is wrong.  Every.  Time.

Aquinas is not contradicting Scripture. However, your knowledge of Holy Writ seems to be lacking, as evidenced by the predestination threads for instance, not to mention of theological concepts.

You would do well to rethink your arrogant approach to theology. Hatred and contempt for Thomism (and Augustinianism) is not a sign of Christian maturity but of baseless Eastern pride, that at its core, is close-minded and childish. It will lead you nowhere but to schism and perdition.
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#17
Quote:I didn't watch the video,

I didn't watch the video either.

Are you thinking the premises are Catholic Teaching?
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#18
(02-05-2012, 02:38 PM)Crusader_Philly Wrote: Yes, he is not a saint in the Roman Catholic Church.

Thus he's not a saint at all.
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#19
Exactly.
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#20
(02-05-2012, 01:50 PM)Melkite Wrote: I'm sorry it bothers you so much that I'm not willing to show Aquinas the same unwavering deference as you, however, Scripture explicitly states that God wills none to perish.  If he does not will people to perish, then he is not in heaven eternally rejoicing at their suffering.  Insofar as Aquinas thought as much, he is wrong.  Anywhere that Aquinas contradicts Scripture, Aquinas is wrong.  Every.  Time.

Scripture contradicts  itself in some places as far as wording goes.

The meaning, not just the barest understanding of the wording, is what is important. I doubt you'd be able to find real errors in St. Thomas's works.

There are a few "errors", but they are not errors in principle.
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