The Eastern Churches and St. Thomas Aquinas
(02-08-2012, 06:59 PM)Petertherock Wrote:
(02-06-2012, 12:58 AM)formerbuddhist Wrote: In all the studies I've done on Eastern Orthodoxy I have never seen anything but mockery and disdain for St. Thomas Aquinas. I'm not saying every Orthodox or Eastern Catholic individually disdains him and his theology but I have never seen any kind words about him. St. Augustine usually gets the same derision but some like the late Father Seraphim Rose actually had some nice things to say about him (Augustine).

Well, when I was at the Maronite monastery we were studying St. Thomas Aquinas Summa Theologica.

Makes sense, Maronites are generally more friendly to so called latin tradition than other easter catholics.
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(02-08-2012, 06:58 PM)TrentCath Wrote: A) its a very different situation

No, it's pretty much the same.  Basic human respect, let alone Christian charity, applies equally in both places.

Quote: Even the Orthodox don't reject some kind of intermediary state, so what you have stated are not exact opposites.  Also, it is perfectly acceptable to believe Purgatory is not painful.  The only reason Latins 'know' it is painful is from private revelation, something that can NEVER be required for faith, thus not de fide.

Trent, what you seem to have failed to understand is that Melkite implicitly understood you to mean purgatorial fire, a theological opinion which is not De Fide.  He was not suggesting that there is no suffering, as he later stated, but that he was not required to view it in terms of visceral pain, which he is not in fact required to believe as a Catholic.  He is right that what is De Fide, even hardcore Orthodox leaders have accepted explicitly, so insisting that Purgatory is a dividing issue with Eastern Orthodox, let alone fellow Catholics, is silly.
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(02-08-2012, 07:04 PM)TrentCath Wrote:
(02-08-2012, 06:59 PM)Petertherock Wrote:
(02-06-2012, 12:58 AM)formerbuddhist Wrote: In all the studies I've done on Eastern Orthodoxy I have never seen anything but mockery and disdain for St. Thomas Aquinas. I'm not saying every Orthodox or Eastern Catholic individually disdains him and his theology but I have never seen any kind words about him. St. Augustine usually gets the same derision but some like the late Father Seraphim Rose actually had some nice things to say about him (Augustine).

Well, when I was at the Maronite monastery we were studying St. Thomas Aquinas Summa Theologica.

Makes sense, Maronites are generally more friendly to so called latin tradition than other easter catholics.

Yup, one of the priests there actually said a TLM on the days he wasn't the main celebrant of the Divine Liturgy.

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(02-08-2012, 07:05 PM)Parmandur Wrote:
(02-08-2012, 06:58 PM)TrentCath Wrote: A) its a very different situation

No, it's pretty much the same.  Basic human respect, let alone Christian charity, applies equally in both places.

No


Quote:Trent, what you seem to have failed to understand is that Melkite implicitly understood you to mean purgatorial fire, a theological opinion which is not De Fide.  He was not suggesting that there is no suffering, as he later stated, but that he was not required to view it in terms of visceral pain, which he is not in fact required to believe as a Catholic.  He is right that what is De Fide, even hardcore Orthodox leaders have accepted explicitly, so insisting that Purgatory is a dividing issue with Eastern Orthodox, let alone fellow Catholics, is silly.

No pain at all goes far beyond no purgatorial fire, I have no concern with what some orthodox leaders do or do not believe as they differ amongst themselves over this matter and over time.

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(02-08-2012, 07:24 PM)Petertherock Wrote:
(02-08-2012, 07:04 PM)TrentCath Wrote:
(02-08-2012, 06:59 PM)Petertherock Wrote:
(02-06-2012, 12:58 AM)formerbuddhist Wrote: In all the studies I've done on Eastern Orthodoxy I have never seen anything but mockery and disdain for St. Thomas Aquinas. I'm not saying every Orthodox or Eastern Catholic individually disdains him and his theology but I have never seen any kind words about him. St. Augustine usually gets the same derision but some like the late Father Seraphim Rose actually had some nice things to say about him (Augustine).

Well, when I was at the Maronite monastery we were studying St. Thomas Aquinas Summa Theologica.

Makes sense, Maronites are generally more friendly to so called latin tradition than other easter catholics.

Yup, one of the priests there actually said a TLM on the days he wasn't the main celebrant of the Divine Liturgy.

That is so cool.
Reply
(02-08-2012, 07:33 PM)TrentCath Wrote:
(02-08-2012, 07:05 PM)Parmandur Wrote:
(02-08-2012, 06:58 PM)TrentCath Wrote: A) its a very different situation

No, it's pretty much the same.  Basic human respect, let alone Christian charity, applies equally in both places.

No

You accused him of spouting heresy, when perhaps you and he misunderstand each others use of words like "pain."  This is uncharitable and unmannerly, and requires an apology

Quote:Trent, what you seem to have failed to understand is that Melkite implicitly understood you to mean purgatorial fire, a theological opinion which is not De Fide.  He was not suggesting that there is no suffering, as he later stated, but that he was not required to view it in terms of visceral pain, which he is not in fact required to believe as a Catholic.  He is right that what is De Fide, even hardcore Orthodox leaders have accepted explicitly, so insisting that Purgatory is a dividing issue with Eastern Orthodox, let alone fellow Catholics, is silly.

Quote:No pain at all goes far beyond no purgatorial fire, I have no concern with what some orthodox leaders do or do not believe as they differ amongst themselves over this matter and over time.

If you don't care, why did you wrongfully assert that they were heretics on a topic on which they have assented to the De Fide teachings of the Holy Catholic Church?  Melkite, in this thread, has assented fully to these same De Fide teachings, as have all the EC and EO churches.  You owe him an apology for wrongfully throwing the word heretic around.
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(02-08-2012, 07:44 PM)Parmandur Wrote:
(02-08-2012, 07:33 PM)TrentCath Wrote:
(02-08-2012, 07:05 PM)Parmandur Wrote:
(02-08-2012, 06:58 PM)TrentCath Wrote: A) its a very different situation

No, it's pretty much the same.  Basic human respect, let alone Christian charity, applies equally in both places.

No

You accused him of spouting heresy, when perhaps you and he misunderstand each others use of words like "pain."  This is uncharitable and unmannerly, and requires an apology

Quote:Trent, what you seem to have failed to understand is that Melkite implicitly understood you to mean purgatorial fire, a theological opinion which is not De Fide.  He was not suggesting that there is no suffering, as he later stated, but that he was not required to view it in terms of visceral pain, which he is not in fact required to believe as a Catholic.  He is right that what is De Fide, even hardcore Orthodox leaders have accepted explicitly, so insisting that Purgatory is a dividing issue with Eastern Orthodox, let alone fellow Catholics, is silly.

Quote:No pain at all goes far beyond no purgatorial fire, I have no concern with what some orthodox leaders do or do not believe as they differ amongst themselves over this matter and over time.

If you don't care, why did you wrongfully assert that they were heretics on a topic on which they have assented to the De Fide teachings of the Holy Catholic Church?  Melkite, in this thread, has assented fully to these same De Fide teachings, as have all the EC and EO churches.  You owe him an apology for wrongfully throwing the word heretic around.

You misread what I said again  :eyeroll:

I have no intention of replying to your tiresome sanctimonious posts
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(02-08-2012, 07:48 PM)TrentCath Wrote: I have no intention of replying to your tiresome sanctimonious posts

You treat your words like they are perspicuous, when that is hardly the case.  Melkite misunderstood what you meant by "pain," and you accuse him wrongfully of heresy.  The De Fide teachings of the Church do not require of the fiathful what you say they do, and what they do require Melkite has assented to in a Catholic fashion.  You accuse me of being sanctimonious, but at least my mother taught me to apologize for my bad behavior.  :P
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(02-08-2012, 07:54 PM)Parmandur Wrote:
(02-08-2012, 07:48 PM)TrentCath Wrote: I have no intention of replying to your tiresome sanctimonious posts

You treat your words like they are perspicuous, when that is hardly the case.  Melkite misunderstood what you meant by "pain," and you accuse him wrongfully of heresy.  The De Fide teachings of the Church do not require of the fiathful what you say they do, and what they do require Melkite has assented to in a Catholic fashion.  You accuse me of being sanctimonious, but at least my mother taught me to apologize for my bad behavior.  :P

And you have a remarkable talent for obfuscation
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And you have a remarkable talent for being a jerk. It has been shown to you several times that Melkite did not utter heresy. For the mere fact

that you accused him of heresy without any substantiation you should apologize. Otherwise you falsely judge your spiritual brother, and I'm

sure that's a sin of some measure.
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