Our Lady of America, real, not real?
#11
(02-11-2012, 11:04 AM)SaintAndrew Wrote:
(02-11-2012, 06:14 AM)LoneWolfRadTrad Wrote: Medjugorje is an obvious hoax,
Maybe. Maybe not.

True, it might not be a hoax.  It could be a mass delusion.  Or just mass stupidity.
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#12
(02-11-2012, 05:34 PM)Crusader_Philly Wrote:
(02-11-2012, 04:24 PM)LaramieHirsch Wrote: No, it has never been officially confirmed by the Church.

I've heard that is was, now that it wasn't. This is the really important part.

The bishop gave an imprimatur for her published visions.  But it as not been officially recognized by the Vatican.

Most folks tend to state that, if an apparition is recognized by the local bishop, it is an approved apparition. 

I seem to recall that the bishop was very excited and zealous for the apparition when the sister came to him.  Even had medals made for some sort of devotion.  Check the links I provided, man. 
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#13
Here's a link from the official website.  The website in the OP is actually one from a false camp, who is trying to "grab" the glory of the apparitions.

http://www.ourladyofamerica.com/truestory.php
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#14
(02-11-2012, 06:02 PM)newyorkcatholic Wrote:
(02-11-2012, 11:04 AM)SaintAndrew Wrote:
(02-11-2012, 06:14 AM)LoneWolfRadTrad Wrote: Medjugorje is an obvious hoax,
Maybe. Maybe not.

True, it might not be a hoax.  It could be a mass delusion.  Or just mass stupidity.
Again, maybe. Or maybe not.
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#15
(02-11-2012, 08:19 PM)SaintAndrew Wrote:
(02-11-2012, 06:02 PM)newyorkcatholic Wrote:
(02-11-2012, 11:04 AM)SaintAndrew Wrote:
(02-11-2012, 06:14 AM)LoneWolfRadTrad Wrote: Medjugorje is an obvious hoax,
Maybe. Maybe not.

True, it might not be a hoax.  It could be a mass delusion.  Or just mass stupidity.
Again, maybe. Or maybe not.

No.  Medjugorje is an obvious hoax.  The seers don't have all the qualifying characteristics and they've even claimed that the Virgin Mary prayed the Hail Mary with them.  Something she wouldn't do.

When a real seer is experiencing a divine vision, they're supposed to be unable to be affected by everything around them.  One of the "seers" at Medjugorje was startled by a person sneaking up on them.  Then the "seer" claimed she gasped because she saw Mary almost dropped the baby Jesus...

HOAX
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#16
If even the modern hierarchy has problems with Medjugorje, thats not a good sign.

On a nit-pick level, if it were an obvious hoax, then perhaps many would not adhere to it. I know many people, non-traditionalists and much more pious than me, who love Medjugorje.
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#17
(02-12-2012, 05:27 AM)Crusader_Philly Wrote: If even the modern hierarchy has problems with Medjugorje, thats not a good sign.

On a nit-pick level, if it were an obvious hoax, then perhaps many would not adhere to it. I know many people, non-traditionalists and much more pious than me, who love Medjugorje.
I just wonder why the Vatican hasn't ok'd it or denounced it in the last 31 years.


Cardinal Ratzinger approved Akita 15 years after it happened and Pope Pius IX approved LaSalette just nine years after it happened.
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#18
Laramie Wrote:The bishop gave an imprimatur for her published visions.  But it as not been officially recognized by the Vatican.

Most folks tend to state that, if an apparition is recognized by the local bishop, it is an approved apparition. 

I seem to recall that the bishop was very excited and zealous for the apparition when the sister came to him.  Even had medals made for some sort of devotion.  Check the links I provided, man. 

Yes, I knew about the medals too. My understanding (and I could be wrong) is that an apparition doesn't need official approval of the Vatican if the local bishop approves and as long as there is nothing contrary to faith and morals in the messages. A local cult is permitted, but a universal cult (and a feast on the calendar like Lourdes, Guadalupe, etc) will need Vatican approval.

Medjugorjie (sp?) is under investigation because it has all kinds of controversies related to the messages, not to mention the fact that the local bishop discouraged people from coming there. Plus the apparitions are STILL supposedly happening and pilgrims continue to flock there. That's why the Vatican got involved.
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#19
(02-12-2012, 11:51 AM)StrictCatholicGirl Wrote:
Laramie Wrote:The bishop gave an imprimatur for her published visions.  But it as not been officially recognized by the Vatican.

Most folks tend to state that, if an apparition is recognized by the local bishop, it is an approved apparition. 

I seem to recall that the bishop was very excited and zealous for the apparition when the sister came to him.  Even had medals made for some sort of devotion.  Check the links I provided, man. 

Yes, I knew about the medals too. My understanding (and I could be wrong) is that an apparition doesn't need official approval of the Vatican if the local bishop approves and as long as there is nothing contrary to faith and morals in the messages. A local cult is permitted, but a universal cult (and a feast on the calendar like Lourdes, Guadalupe, etc) will need Vatican approval.

Medjugorjie (sp?) is under investigation because it has all kinds of controversies related to the messages, not to mention the fact that the local bishop discouraged people from coming there. Plus the apparitions are STILL supposedly happening and pilgrims continue to flock there. That's why the Vatican got involved.

That is how I understand it as well.
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#20
(02-12-2012, 10:44 AM)SaintAndrew Wrote: I just wonder why the Vatican hasn't ok'd it or denounced it in the last 31 years.


Cardinal Ratzinger approved Akita 15 years after it happened and Pope Pius IX approved LaSalette just nine years after it happened.
The Vatican doesn't need to denounce it, because the local bishop, who is the competent authority, has already done so, and continues to do.
Akita only got to the Vatican, because the local bishop, who wanted to approve it, asked for a ruling from the Vatican.

I have my doubts about La Salette - there are too many similarities to Medjugorje and other non-authentic phenomena.
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