Errors of Russia
#11
(02-14-2012, 11:38 AM)PeterII Wrote: But then you're contradicting yourself by saying the "errors of Russia" is the spread of Marxism, which is: more government, less freedom.
Government is not the problem. It is how the government is used and who is the Master. Under a secular government, like the former Soviet Union, the Master was the Great Liar.
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#12
(02-14-2012, 11:35 AM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(02-14-2012, 11:33 AM)PeterII Wrote: By what authority can a government coerce individuals? 

God's.

Quote:Who put them in charge?

God.

So God made Obama the President of the United States?  God's will be done!
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#13
(02-14-2012, 11:38 AM)PeterII Wrote:
(02-14-2012, 10:59 AM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: The "errors of Russia" are simply put the spread of Marxism, which manifests itself on many planes not just the political.

Saying that heaven intervened on behalf of libertarianism - "less government, more freedom" - is ridiculous.

But then you're contradicting yourself by saying the "errors of Russia" is the spread of Marxism, which is: more government, less freedom.

I'm not sure I'm following you. Do you know what Marxism is and what it entails as a philosophy? It's pure materialism, it strips man of his soul.

If Marxism were just about "more government and less freedom," then these "errors" predate Communist Russia for centuries.
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#14
(02-14-2012, 11:40 AM)PeterII Wrote: So God made Obama the President of the United States?  God's will be done!
Could be. Obama was a wake-up call.
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#15
(02-14-2012, 11:40 AM)PeterII Wrote:
(02-14-2012, 11:35 AM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(02-14-2012, 11:33 AM)PeterII Wrote: By what authority can a government coerce individuals? 

God's.

Quote:Who put them in charge?

God.

So God made Obama the President of the United States?  God's will be done!

Permissively, yes.

Obama, or any other president of the United States, can certainly and lawfully coerce you, within moral bounds. All authority comes from God. You see, this is an inherent problem of democracy: the disrespect and contempt it breeds for authority since "we, the people" are the source of all authority and sovereignty, and not God.
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#16
Traditional Guy Wrote:But see you have fallen for the very same idolatry of Marxism (another offshoot of liberalism). "Man's role is to do what he wants and overcome Nature!" The Community is a lot more important than the individual. China, has grown more rapidly than any country on earth and it is built on autocracy and mercantilism.

Well, we have to overcome fallen human nature.  The community exists to protect individuals, not the other way around.  China has rapidly grown because a repressed population was given limited economic freedom in the 80s.  The growth is not built on autocracy and mercantilism, it comes from reducing it.  
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#17
(02-14-2012, 11:48 AM)PeterII Wrote: Well, we have to overcome fallen human nature.  The community exists to protect individuals, not the other way around.  China has rapidly grown because a repressed population was given limited economic freedom in the 80s.  The growth is not built on autocracy and mercantilism, it comes from reducing it.  
Oh really? By your standards the Russia of Peter the Great, the England of Victoria and Lord Salisbury, the France of Louis XIV and Napoleon, the Roman Republic and Empire, the Virginia of Washington, Jefferson, and Madison, the Germany of Bismarck, the Prussia of Frederick the Great, etc. were all unsuccessful societies since none were 'responsive to freedom.' And yes China has sustained her growth by her huge trade surpluses with America. But I know libertarians are for free trade, because they enjoy their prosperity from economic foundations and college classrooms.
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#18
I never thought I'd live to see the day when Our Lady of Fatima would be heralded as an advocate of libertarianism.

The world is a strange place, indeed.
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#19
Man has no "rights" other than the right to worship good and to practice virtue.  All other rhetoric of "liberty" is based upon the idea that man should be his own god, and govern himself apart from as much authority (including religious authority) as possible.  This is why the Enlightenment was not a good movement.
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#20
Vetus Ordo Wrote:I'm not sure I'm following you. Do you know what Marxism is and what it entails as a philosophy? It's pure materialism, it strips man of his soul.

If Marxism were just about "more government and less freedom," then these "errors" predate Communist Russia for centuries.

But then what separates a Marxist society from other societies?  It is obviously the command economy and theft of private property for the "good" of the whole.
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