Humility: Humble People?
#11
(03-03-2012, 09:55 PM)JayneK Wrote:
(03-03-2012, 09:22 PM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:
(03-03-2012, 09:16 PM)JayneK Wrote:
(03-03-2012, 09:01 PM)LaramieHirsch Wrote: What are some modern examples of false humility?

Award acceptance speeches, like at the Oscars.

Too easy.  How about in day-to-day life?

If somebody makes something and says "It isn't really very good" but what they really want is for you to disagree.  That is just fishing for compliments, not humility at all.

If someone only thinks "it really isn't good", without saying a thing, when it is good and a gift from God. Humility is seeing yourself as God sees you.  It is lowering yourself, yes, but as compared to God, not thinking what is false.  Mary didn't think or say "I am not holy" she thought and said "behold the handmaid of the Lord".
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#12
(03-03-2012, 09:55 PM)JayneK Wrote:
(03-03-2012, 09:22 PM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:
(03-03-2012, 09:16 PM)JayneK Wrote:
(03-03-2012, 09:01 PM)LaramieHirsch Wrote: What are some modern examples of false humility?

Award acceptance speeches, like at the Oscars.

Too easy.  How about in day-to-day life?

If somebody makes something and says "It isn't really very good" but what they really want is for you to disagree.  That is just fishing for compliments, not humility at all.

Saying this is only false humility if the bolded part is true.
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#13
(03-03-2012, 11:37 PM)Doce Me Wrote: If someone only thinks "it really isn't good", without saying a thing, when it is good and a gift from God. Humility is seeing yourself as God sees you.  It is lowering yourself, yes, but as compared to God, not thinking what is false.  Mary didn't think or say "I am not holy" she thought and said "behold the handmaid of the Lord".

Yes, very well put!

(03-03-2012, 08:52 PM)JayneK Wrote: I don't think that true humility demands dishonesty.  I seems to me that a humble person would be able to discuss his strengths as honestly as he discusses his faults.

Anyhow, it occurs to me that we might gain some insight from the Litany for Humility:
Quote:O Jesus! meek and humble of heart, Hear me.
From the desire of being esteemed,
Deliver me, Jesus.

From the desire of being loved...
From the desire of being extolled ...
From the desire of being honored ...
From the desire of being praised ...
From the desire of being preferred to others...
From the desire of being consulted ...
From the desire of being approved ...
From the fear of being humiliated ...
From the fear of being despised...
From the fear of suffering rebukes ...
From the fear of being calumniated ...
From the fear of being forgotten ...
From the fear of being ridiculed ...
From the fear of being wronged ...
From the fear of being suspected ...

That others may be loved more than I,
Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it.

That others may be esteemed more than I ...
That, in the opinion of the world,
others may increase and I may decrease ...
That others may be chosen and I set aside ...
That others may be praised and I unnoticed ...
That others may be preferred to me in everything...
That others may become holier than I, provided that I may become as holy as I should…

Thanks, JayneK!
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#14
Perhaps it might be useful to recall the words of St. Thomas Aquinas about humility:

Quote:"Humility observes the rule of right reason whereby a man has true self-esteem."

ST IIa IIae 162 3 ad 2


So, false modesty is out (as has already been observed) as is inflated pride. As to others, are we not obliged by the teaching of scripture to help our brethren in their growth towards truth? Sometimes this may involve tough love...
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#15
Can a man be humble and talk about how people should be humble?

Yes, as long as his efforts to help others do not lead to a distinction of one being better than the other in himself. A humble man sees his sins clearly, his condition clearly, and also sees that he has within him the potential of great evils, and that there is a very short leap to pride and conceit. His humility should point to a 3rd person, not too himself. Be humble like Him. And, Practice humility. Not, Be humble like me.

Can a man be humble, and talk about how other people are not humble, and should be humble?

Yes. Such standards, evaluations, and observations do not have to be clouded by our subjective judgements. A truly humble man pays little regard to his own judgements anyways.

Can a man be sarcastic and be humble?

Depends, really. Is the speech intended to harm or cause division? Is it intended to attract attention to oneself, one's wit?
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#16
(03-03-2012, 08:32 PM)Crusading Philologist Wrote: I would ask this question somewhere where a humble person might happen to come across it.

:LOL:
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#17
I think that truly humble people don't consider themselves humble. :)
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#18
Quote: "Humility observes the rule of right reason whereby a man has true self-esteem."

Bingo.  That is the money quote, thanks for posting it.

For a long time I despised what I considered to be humility.  All around me I saw hand wringing men with an excuse in every pocket who refused to lead.  Oh how humble of them, to consider themselves lowly.  What I saw was a need for men to have pride in their work and their position, and take a stand.  I couldn't square what I saw with my own eyes with what I thought humility was.

Then a priest defined it very simply for me and a light bulb went off.  Humility is simply this:  Always tell the truth about yourself to yourself.  And when required, admit the truth to others (modesty prevents you from airing your laundry, so to speak, but on the other hand, if you mess up, fess up).  This is a simplified definition of what St. Thomas wrote.

So face up to your faults, but don't practice self-hate, as you were bought and purchased at the expensive price of the Blood of Jesus, who loves you.

I found that next to Mass and the Redemption, humility is one of the greatest gifts God gives us.  Once you start practicing humility, you receive a benefit.  As you become aware of your faults, you also realize that other people have faults, and you lose the vice of "respect for persons".  Great leaders are humble people (true definition of humility).  And, only the humble can practice that great Catholic virtue of Magnanimity, striving for great things.
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