N.O. priests' reactions to suggesting they do an EF Mass…
#1
Here's the positive response (edited for anonymity):
Quote: At this point it could not be said that there is a Tridentine Mass community [...] [here], though there are the makings of a small one. One couple for example, gave me the rather pointed [poignant?] Christmas gift of a 1962 missal.

I certainly have no theoretical objections to the Liturgy that nourished so many saints. That would be highly presumptuous on my part. I do think that the Second Vatican Council's essential points about liturgical reform are valid, though, sadly, obscured by the incompetence with which the conciliar reforms were implemented. I remain convinced that the Novus Ordo can be celebrated well and beautifully, and that a purified form of the Novus Ordo will be the Roman liturgy of the future.

That said, I am far too devoted to the Church's tradition simply to refuse to celebrate the Tridentine Mass. I am starting, very tentatively, to think about how I might deal with certain practical difficulties:
1. My Latin is good, but the rubrics of the Tridentine Mass are considerably different from those of the Novus Ordo, and considerably more complex. If the Extraordinary Form is to be celebrated, it must be celebrated correctly, as I am sure you will agree. This means that I must find time either for training in the Tridentine rubrics or for diligent study.
2. The Tridentine Mass would require at least one competent server. There is no one here capable of serving it properly. I must therefore find someone willing to train a server, and someone to do the training.
3. For every Sunday I celebrate Holy Mass at 5:30 p.m. on Saturday, at 8:00 and 10:30 on Sunday mornings, and at 5:30 on Sunday evenings. On the fourth Sunday of every month I celebrate Mass in Spanish at 12:30 p.m. For the other Sundays of the month I celebrate Mass for the small Neo-Catechumenal community at 8:30 p.m. on Saturday. It is not clear, frankly, where a celebration of Tridentine Mass on Sunday would fit.

But I probably wouldn't want to start with a Sunday or a High Mass anyway. It would be best to acquire some experience first with Low Mass on Weekdays.

There is a small choir that is hoping to help with a Tridentine High Mass late in the fall, possibly for All Souls' Day. In preparation for that I hope to celebrate a Low Mass on some selected days in the fall.

As you see, there is some hope for a Tridentine Mass [...] [here]. There would be more if you could help. I don't suppose you're up to being a singer or an altar server?

[...]

Again, there is some interest here in the Tridentine Mass, and, if you have time and inclination to assist, maybe you could be the critical piece to make it happen.
Negative response #1 (again, edited for anonymity):
Quote:Uh, no.
We won't be doing any Dominican Rite liturgies [...] [here].
Negative response #2 (again, edited for anonymity); I asked this priest to please consider having a weekly EF mass for my grandmother who's fallen away from the faith because of the post-Vatican II liturgical "deforms":
Quote:I wish to acknowledge receipt of your letter sent by fax to [...] [my associate priest] and myself concerning your desire that we offer a weekly "Extraordinary Form Mass" for your grandmother.

We are two priests in a very large parish with a very small church. Currently we are offering seven Masses two or three weekends per month and eight times on the second and forth weekends of the month. As such, already we are acting contrary to the Code of Canon Law for the Roman Catholic Church concerning the number of Masses a priest may celebrate. We do this with the permission of our Archbishop because there is a need to serve the people of this parish. As well, because of the large numbers of Spanish-speaking persons coming for Mass, we are desperately in need of adding another Spanish Mass. This is my first priority.

With that in mind, and in addition to the fact that we have not had the training to celebrate the Mass in its Extraordinary form, we will not be adding such a Mass.

I am sad that your grandmother has chosen not to participate in our sacraments, especially the Eucharist, because of liturgical changes that have done so much to bring more and more people into the Catholic faith. Growth and change are both very difficult for most people, yet they must occur. As our physical bodies must grow and change with the passing of years, so to our life of faith and our Church, for it too, is a living being.

Be assured of my prayers for your grandmother and you and your family that your hearts will be open to receiving the grace that our God so freely chooses to bestow upon us.

In Christ Jesus,
My friend's response when I asked him for advice as how to respond to the last priest:
Quote:The problem with the priest is the need to just provide quick masses. Instead of having so many masses what they need to do is reduce them, and actually have people travel. Or have the Church full. Going against the Canon law of the Church and celebrating 8 masses is not wise. It leads to using the short form of the Novus Ordo, which leads to empty liturgy. Tell him how long is one of his masses, when he celebrates 8 masses on Sunday. I am pretty sure that at most people are left with a short canon of the mass and a 5 minute sermon. How is this going to produce vocations? I just dont see it. This whole idea of numbers is baffling. The amount of people that attend the traditional mass, as compared to the Novus Ordo, the proportions of who accepts their vocation is just undisputable.What does he want for the future of the Church... A church where laity have to give the Eucharist to the sick, say prayers for the dead. And priest that offer 25 minute masses with 5 minute sermons? I just dont see how that is helpful. If he sticks with a few people, and builds them ground up he will vocations to replace him and this render the greatest possible to the Church rather than just offer nothing but sacriliegious masses.

In my humble opinion, make him realize just how ridiculous the fact that he celebrates 8 masses going against the norms of the Church is not wise in the first place. How many people in those 8 masses have actually had vocations. Tell him that quality over quantity is best, he has to draw from the spiritual waters too and just cant let everyone drink from them. Show him the example in El Paso, how many vocations in a diocese that has had only 2 priest in 15 years. And now how many are not entering vocations, but have already become Religious, and are in the seminary. The amount is incredible, and there are many that cant enter because of age that are waiting to enter. The same goes for other places, what is his goal as a priest if it is not to build up the Church of God with replacements. Rather than just merely providing fast food sacraments. Just imagine him celebrating 8 traditional Latin masses a day, he wouldnt be able. but because the Novus Ordo has options that make it 1/4 as long then yeah I can see how he can do so many. Is he offering 8 masses in the same Church's or traveling? What about during the weekday? How many masses does he do. Probably one or two. And probably few people attend it, the problem also is the fact that you have to offer 4 masses in english and 4 masses in spanish or 1 mass in korean or whatever other language there is. It simply shows how flawed it is. Or like in some masses I have seen they do it bilingual, spanish and English. It really goes to absurdity...
How do you suggest I respond to the priest? Thanks
Reply
#2
You won't change his mind. Don't bother responding. More than likely his reasons for refusing are ideological rather than practical, and this is evidenced by how unsympathetic he is about your grandmother falling away because of the revolution. The only one who seems open to it is the first but that looks like it will take a lot of time to get up and running. Honestly, if I were you, I'd be looking for the closest traditional chapel.

I'm guessing you don't have FSSP where you live (as that would make the need to get the Mass from diocesan priests redundant), but do the SSPX have a chapel around your area?

Also, if not, maybe you could take your grandmother on a one off "road trip" to a real traditional parish so she can see the Mass of her youth and meet some real priests. She would probably love it.
Reply
#3
Your response to the priests depends on how well you know them.  If you know them well, your discussion can be frank.  As to the first, ask for the names of the other interested people.  Then, learn how to serve the mass, since you probably will be the server.  You can learn to serve the mass in a fraction of the time a boy would take to learn it.  Once all of you are ready, you can put a time table for the priest to serve the mass - start with one mass a quarter.  That is hard to refuse.

As to the second priest, if you know him well, tell him you found the reply disengenuous.  His problem is a function of vernacular masses - one for every flavor of parishioner.  A Latin mass will serve both his Spanish and Anglo congregants.  He can give the homily in Spanish, and provide a written copy of the homily in English.  That nonsense about growing through change is an insult.  All of the Church fathers said not to change the mass. 

If you do not know the second priest well, I tend to agree that no response is best. 
Reply
#4
I sympathize with your grandmother. There are so many more like her, it boggles my mind. The cavalier attitude to her is pitiful. The priest said the NO Mass has brought so many more to Mass. He is deluded, nealy half left with the reforms and the sex crisis took another third. It appears the older generation that could not withstand the "changes" are abandoned. Are not the shepherds supposed to go and find the lost ?

Skirting the obvious, I'd suggest that you buy your grandmother a MonasticDiurnal or the Roman Diurnal or the Litttle Office of the BVM, in Latin/English until you can sort this out. I speak from experience. If she is old enough she'll remember some of te Latin, and the Holy Ghost will give her the grace to learn. Most of us oldies can pronounce Latin from hearing it so much in the day. It's like meeting an old friend after fifty years. At first you don't remember everything, but it warms your heart, then it starts coming back and it is good.

I understand the need for her to retun to the Church and the sacraments, but first steps are necessarily small. Maybe tell her an old guy suggested this.

tim
Reply
#5
I don't want to derail this thread but I was just curious if the Sunday SSPX Mass is always a High Mass?
Reply
#6
(03-15-2012, 11:40 AM)mikemac Wrote: I don't want to derail this thread but I was just curious if the Sunday SSPX Mass is always a High Mass?

The chapel near me has both, an early Low Mass and later a High Mass.
Reply
#7
Back to the OP, don't underestimate how much of an obstacle the practical difficulties are.  A priest has to be very motivated to overcome them all.  I was in a parish where the priest was quite favourable toward the TLM and it took him years to finally get everything together to do it.  I suspect the factor that tipped the balance was that some parishioners donated some money for him to use to acquire whatever training and supplies he needed.  After he accepted the money he had a sense of commitment to making this happen.

I don't have any advice other than to  be sympathetic about the practical problems.  They are very real.  This is very hard time in which to be a priest.  We need to pray for priests constantly.
Reply
#8
(03-15-2012, 08:33 AM)Aragon Wrote: Honestly, if I were you, I'd be looking for the closest traditional chapel.
Yes, I just checked WikkiMissa, but the closest one to my grandmother is unfortunately 67 miles away from here.
(03-15-2012, 08:33 AM)Aragon Wrote: Also, if not, maybe you could take your grandmother on a one off "road trip" to a real traditional parish so she can see the Mass of her youth and meet some real priests. She would probably love it.
Too bad my grandmother is ~1500 miles away from where I am… I'm sure she would love it, though.
Reply
#9
(03-15-2012, 11:40 AM)mikemac Wrote: I don't want to derail this thread but I was just curious if the Sunday SSPX Mass is always a High Mass?
They probably try to make it a High Mass whenever they can.
Reply
#10
I've gone through this with two NO priests.  Both of them gave positive answers with one saying he's been planning on learning for awhile, but he keeps getting transferred and is extremely busy (very true) taking care of multiple parishes.  The other agreed that he'll go through some instructions to learn it, but knowing him he means it but won't actually go through with it because he's not decisive enough.   There's got to be a success somewhere, sometime!
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)