The fewness of the saved!
#31
(03-18-2012, 03:39 PM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:
(03-18-2012, 03:32 PM)James02 Wrote: I think the majority of baptized Catholics go to heaven.  You've passed THE hurdle, having Faith in Jesus and being baptized.

Trust in Hope.  When you sin, say an Act of Contrition immediately, then get to Confession.  The yoke is light.

Ah, but did you not read all 101 quotations about how so many folks are gonna burn in perdition?  Even many "Christians" will burn in hell!

Honestly, I agree with every thing stated in the OP, as well as the 101 quotes.  However, something seems missing in this dialogue.  Can't quite put my finger on it.  But it's compelling me to react strongly. 

And another thing.  From all the saints lives I read, I truly get the impression that it's just nuns and monks that end up going to Heaven at the end of the day.  Not really any regular folks.  Serious on that one.  Thoughts?

Ok, yah, probably a lot of Christians will go to Hell... if they don't practice the faith by the rubrics, i.e. getting to confession, having true sorrow for their sin, etc. But I have to go with James when he said the yolk is light. These are words straight from the mouth of our redeemer, Jesus. We have been shown the easiest way to heaven through the sacraments. Let us use them as frequently as possible, with contrite hearts. God knows that we are wretched sinners, made from dust, so he gave us the sacraments to help save our souls. Live out your baptism, be painfully sorry for having offended God and confess your mortal sins.
I don't think the Religious will be the only ones to attain heaven. While I cannot argue that the Religious don't have a better shot, given their particular closeness to God in accordance with their vocation, we cannot discount the sacramental grace that comes through matrimony. Not everyones vocation is to be a nun or monk, clearly. Matrimony is an institution that God created since the beginning, and he has given us the grace to do it well and therefore get to heaven.
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#32
(03-18-2012, 04:34 PM)jen51 Wrote: Ok, yah, probably a lot of Christians will go to Hell... if they don't practice the faith by the rubrics, i.e. getting to confession, having true sorrow for their sin, etc. But I have to go with James when he said the yolk is light. These are words straight from the mouth of our redeemer, Jesus. .

The yoke is light.  Yes.  Just keep going to weekly Mass, and your sould should be fine.  Right?

But what about a generation of people who do not have any discipline ingrained in them.  At all.  It's a quirky life, and one might find they've strayed off the narrow path so easily!  And then, they die!  Too bad for them that there was no priest around to confess to.

The following quotation is not too comforting:

"The road to hell is paved with the skulls of erring priests, with bishops as their signposts."  --St. John Chrysostom 

I dunno. 

Perhaps I'm irked by the Protestant who told me he's going to Heaven because he knows he is saved by Christ.  It strikes me as arrogant that people claim such a thing.   

Meh.  I doubt there will be any further insight in this thread.  Most folks go to Hell.
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#33
Practice you station in life which includes building community also, which means living a joyful life, especially on Sunday.  Recreation with you family and friends.  We received the "Good News" not the "Bad News".  You are not a priest, so don't be too concerned about their station in life.  You probably don't contracept or commit adultery.  Cling to the Hope given to you on your day of Baptism.  It is a fine balance: Don't presume on God's mercy, but have Hope in it.
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#34
Quote:Here it will be well to remark, what is unanimously admitted by all theologians, even of the rigorist school, that persons who have during a considerable period of time been leading a virtuous life, and live habitually in the fear of God, whenever they are in doubt, and are not certain whether they have given consent to a grievous sin, ought to be perfectly assured that they have not lost the Divine grace; for it is morally impossible that the will, confirmed in its good purposes for a considerable lapse of time, should on a sudden undergo so total a change as at once to consent to a mortal sin without clearly knowing it; the reason of it is, that mortal sin is so horrible a monster that it cannot possible enter a soul by which it has long been held in abhorrence, without her being fully aware of it. We have proved this at length in our Moral Theology. [lib. 6, D. 476.] St. Teresa said: No one is lost without knowing it; and no one is deceived without the will to be deceived. [life, addit.]

It's a good quote!  :)

One must remember to read it properly: a virtuous life , habitually in the fear of God , is so horrible a monster

And ask: Do you have a life of true, living virtue, -- is it alive? Do you have habitual fear of God (not just afraid, that's different), do you have pious awe and reverence and restraint from sin -- and to you, are all the mortal sins horrible monsters, that you would react to, as the worst things in the world?

If after all your habitual reaction to any mortal sin, is to yawn and overlook it -- you're not going to notice it if you've committed it. You have not it has long been held in abhorrence

The book on mortal sin linked to earlier can help develop that reaction, which this world destroys, along with a delicate conscience. :)

Further one can learn more from the quote above by turning it upside down partly. .  .

His yoke is easy, His burden light! It is far easier than a life of sin! But few choose to bear it, few choose to continue in the life of it! The deceits of sin, human respect, and the life of the majority of people who are "Christians" deceive us. But if we are in good company, bad companions will not mislead us into a false view of Christian life --- the company of the saints, their good examples will show us what life as a Christian truly is, and it is a splendid good life. :D


'My children, some people make bad confessions without taking any notice of it. These persons say, "I do not know what is the matter with me" . . . They are tormented, and they do not know why. They have not that agility which makes one go straight to the good God; they have something heavy and weary about them which fatigues them. My children, that is because of sins that remain, often even venial sins, for which one has some affection. There are some people who, indeed, tell everything, but they have no repentance; and they go at once to Holy Communion. Thus the Blood of Our Lord is profaned! They go to the Holy Table with a sort of weariness. They say, "Yet, I accused myself of all my sins. . . I do not know what is the matter with me." There is an unworthy Communion, and they were hardly aware of it!'

St. Jean Marie Baptiste Vianney, the Cure of Ars

'Look at bad Christians; they do everything with trouble and disgust; and why, my children? because they do not love the good God, because their soul is not pure, and their hopes are no longer in Heaven, but on earth. Their heart is an impure source which poisons all their actions, and prevents them from rising to God; so they come to die without having thought of death, destitute of good works for Heaven, and loaded with crimes for Hell: this is the way they are lost forever, my children. People say it is too much trouble to save one's soul; but, my children, is it not trouble to acquire glory or fortune? Do you stay in bed when you have to go and plough, or mow, or reap? No. Well, then, why should you be more idle when you have to lay up an immense fortune which will never perish -- when you have to strive for eternal glory?'

St. Jean Marie Baptiste Vianney, the Cure of Ars

'Can you expect to go to Heaven for nothing? Did not our dear Savior track the whole way to it with His Blood and tears?'

St. Elizabeth Ann Seton

'Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. By "the poor in spirit" is meant those who are poor in earthly desires, and desire nothing but God. These are poor in desires, but not without affection, because they live contented even in this life; and, therefore, the Lord does not say, "Theirs will be the kingdom of heaven," but "theirs is," because even in this life they are rich in spiritual blessings which they receive from God; and thus, however poor they are in temporal goods, they live content with their condition. They are different from the rich in earthly desires, who, in the present life, whatever riches they possess, are always poor, and live discontented; for the good things of this life do not satisfy our thirst, however much they are increased; wherefore, these persons are never contented, never attaining to the acquisition of what they desire.'

St. Alphonsus Maria de Liguori

'Sometimes, in prayer, God communicates to the soul, all at once, His treasures of lights and heavenly graces. Imagine that you have in your hand a golden dish, that you pour into it the extract of the rarest and most exquisite perfumes, and that you steep into it a fine cambric handkerchief; this handkerchief will yield a delicious and inexplicable odor, composed of all the perfumes. It is thus my soul feels when I receive those intimate and hidden communications.'

St. Paul of the Cross

'Not only the heavens, but the sight of a blade of grass, or of the most insignificant thing, suffices to inflame with love of God the heart that knows Him.'

St. Ignatius of Loyola
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#35
Oh btw, INPEFESS, thankyou for hitting on my question about God loving some more than others. I've been soaking on those scriptures you referenced... trying to wrap my mind around this predestination bit. I have a million questions about predestination. Ok, maybe 15 or 20. As a recent convert from Protestantism, I'm still trying to sort through the theological mess lingering in my brain from Protestant theologins on this topic. I would like to arrive at a firm Catholic stance on it. I'll refrain from asking those questions here though, to avoid derailing this thread.
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#36
(03-18-2012, 04:32 PM)LaramieHirsch Wrote: I'm stating what I've already stated:

(03-18-2012, 03:39 PM)LaramieHirsch Wrote: ...something seems missing in this dialogue.  Can't quite put my finger on it.  But it's compelling me to react strongly. 

And another thing.  From all the saints lives I read, I truly get the impression that it's just nuns and monks that end up going to Heaven at the end of the day.  Not really any regular folks. 

What's missing?

Everybody agrees that it's at least likely that a vast majority of mankind goes to hell. Just a mere observation of life testifies to this reality.

As for only nuns and monks going to heaven, that's clearly an error.
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#37
(03-18-2012, 04:58 PM)LaramieHirsch Wrote: But what about a generation of people who do not have any discipline ingrained in them.  At all.  It's a quirky life, and one might find they've strayed off the narrow path so easily!  And then, they die!  Too bad for them that there was no priest around to confess to.

All people are born condemned. There's no injustice committed against this generation if most will end up damned.

Quote:Perhaps I'm irked by the Protestant who told me he's going to Heaven because he knows he is saved by Christ.  It strikes me as arrogant that people claim such a thing.

He's at fault in his presumption of election but correct in the fact that the elect are surely going to heaven.  

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#38
(03-18-2012, 06:31 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: Everybody agrees that it's at least likely that a vast majority of mankind goes to hell.


No, everybody does not agree with that. There are plenty of saints who would not agree with the premise of this thread.
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#39
(03-18-2012, 06:49 PM)Silouan Wrote:
(03-18-2012, 06:31 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: Everybody agrees that it's at least likely that a vast majority of mankind goes to hell.


No, everybody does not agree with that. There are plenty of saints who would not agree with the premise of this thread.

Actually, no, there aren't.
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#40
My perspective is, if St. Leonard's piece, and 101 quotations (there are plenty more) aren't enough for a person, nothing is going to be. God help folks. There are plenty of other works repeating this, throughout history.

The best way to learn is to sit at the foot of the saints and to place your own way of thinking aside. The best way not to learn is just the opposite, we exalt our own too human reasoning too much. God help us!  :)

This is how we find the truth by not relying on ourselves. And we need the truth. Very much so. And it's splendid really.
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