I can't believe this isn't getting discussed on FE!
#31
(03-21-2012, 08:20 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(03-21-2012, 08:17 PM)Norbert Wrote:
(03-21-2012, 08:05 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: Why should the SSPX "come to Rome"? To praise Luther?

And what happens if they don't? Are they on the road to hell, unlike Protestants, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Animists, Atheists, etc.?

Don't you see vetus?  The only thing standing in between us and the golden age of man is the toleration of intolerance...

Hey, if the magisterium now "teaches" that everyone under the sun is part of God's plan of salvation, who am I to disagree?

We can't think for ourselves and make up our own minds, we're not Protestants! We just pray, pay and obey like good Catholics.
You don't think that God want's everyone to be saved? I mean, I understand that not everyone will be saved. But you don't believe that God has a universal salvific will?
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#32
(03-21-2012, 08:23 PM)Papist Wrote:
(03-21-2012, 08:20 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(03-21-2012, 08:17 PM)Norbert Wrote:
(03-21-2012, 08:05 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: Why should the SSPX "come to Rome"? To praise Luther?

And what happens if they don't? Are they on the road to hell, unlike Protestants, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Animists, Atheists, etc.?

Don't you see vetus?  The only thing standing in between us and the golden age of man is the toleration of intolerance...

Hey, if the magisterium now "teaches" that everyone under the sun is part of God's plan of salvation, who am I to disagree?

We can't think for ourselves and make up our own minds, we're not Protestants! We just pray, pay and obey like good Catholics.

You don't think that God want's everyone to be saved? I mean, I understand that not everyone will be saved. But you don't believe that God has a universal salvific will?

I think that God antecendently wills all to be saved, but consequently doesn't. If you want to pursue the matter further, then there are dozens of threads on predestination where we've discussed this in-depth. Check them.

Nevertheless, you're missing the point I was making. Most likely on purpose.
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#33
(03-21-2012, 08:23 PM)Papist Wrote:
(03-21-2012, 08:20 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(03-21-2012, 08:17 PM)Norbert Wrote:
(03-21-2012, 08:05 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: Why should the SSPX "come to Rome"? To praise Luther?

And what happens if they don't? Are they on the road to hell, unlike Protestants, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Animists, Atheists, etc.?

Don't you see vetus?  The only thing standing in between us and the golden age of man is the toleration of intolerance...

Hey, if the magisterium now "teaches" that everyone under the sun is part of God's plan of salvation, who am I to disagree?

We can't think for ourselves and make up our own minds, we're not Protestants! We just pray, pay and obey like good Catholics.
You don't think that God want's everyone to be saved? I mean, I understand that not everyone will be saved. But you don't believe that God has a universal salvific will?

The distinction must be made from God's will (passive and positive) and God's will as in how we pray in the Our Father, as it pertains to what God wants.  God wants all men to be saved but does not will all men to be saved.  Another way to say it might be to say that He wishes all men to be saved, but does not make all men saved.  This is, of course, because He won't interfere with our free will.
More Catholic Discussion: http://thetradforum.com/

Go thy ways, old Jack;
die when thou wilt, if manhood, good manhood, be
not forgot upon the face of the earth, then am I a
shotten herring. There live not three good men
unhanged in England; and one of them is fat and
grows old: God help the while! a bad world, I say.
I would I were a weaver; I could sing psalms or any
thing. A plague of all cowards, I say still.
Reply
#34
(03-21-2012, 08:26 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote:
(03-21-2012, 08:23 PM)Papist Wrote:
(03-21-2012, 08:20 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(03-21-2012, 08:17 PM)Norbert Wrote:
(03-21-2012, 08:05 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: Why should the SSPX "come to Rome"? To praise Luther?

And what happens if they don't? Are they on the road to hell, unlike Protestants, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Animists, Atheists, etc.?

Don't you see vetus?  The only thing standing in between us and the golden age of man is the toleration of intolerance...

Hey, if the magisterium now "teaches" that everyone under the sun is part of God's plan of salvation, who am I to disagree?

We can't think for ourselves and make up our own minds, we're not Protestants! We just pray, pay and obey like good Catholics.
You don't think that God want's everyone to be saved? I mean, I understand that not everyone will be saved. But you don't believe that God has a universal salvific will?

The distinction must be made from God's will (passive and positive) and God's will as in how we pray in the Our Father, as it pertains to what God wants.  God wants all men to be saved but does not will all men to be saved.  Another way to say it might be to say that He wishes all men to be saved, but does not make all men saved.  This is, of course, because He won't interfere with our free will.

You are correct in what you say, but on a grammatical note, "wanting" and "willing" can't be contrasted, as they are synonyms. 
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#35
(03-21-2012, 08:26 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote: This is, of course, because He won't interfere with our free will.

Of course He interferes. If He didn't interfere, everyone would be damned.

The "interference" is called grace. It doesn't annihilate free will but moves it.
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#36
(03-21-2012, 08:52 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(03-21-2012, 08:26 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote: This is, of course, because He won't interfere with our free will.

Of course He interferes. If He didn't interfere, everyone would be damned.

The "interference" is called grace. It doesn't annihilate free will but moves it.

A negation of free will is what I was referring to.  Sorry if that wasn't clear.

He moves us so that we may freely choose Him.
More Catholic Discussion: http://thetradforum.com/

Go thy ways, old Jack;
die when thou wilt, if manhood, good manhood, be
not forgot upon the face of the earth, then am I a
shotten herring. There live not three good men
unhanged in England; and one of them is fat and
grows old: God help the while! a bad world, I say.
I would I were a weaver; I could sing psalms or any
thing. A plague of all cowards, I say still.
Reply
#37
Anyway, we're moving away from the OP.
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#38
Molinism - Thomism

:duel:
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#39
(03-21-2012, 08:58 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: Anyway, we're moving away from the OP.

If it doesn't end in pants, predestination or sedevacantism, it isn't Fisheaters!
More Catholic Discussion: http://thetradforum.com/

Go thy ways, old Jack;
die when thou wilt, if manhood, good manhood, be
not forgot upon the face of the earth, then am I a
shotten herring. There live not three good men
unhanged in England; and one of them is fat and
grows old: God help the while! a bad world, I say.
I would I were a weaver; I could sing psalms or any
thing. A plague of all cowards, I say still.
Reply
#40
(03-21-2012, 08:59 PM)Crusader_Philly Wrote: Molinism - Thomism

:duel:

Molinism - Gospel.
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