Co-Redemptrix
#11
(05-05-2012, 06:04 PM)Parmandur Wrote: In the same way all the saints suffer for the Church, which receives strength from their example. The Gloss says that “afflictions are still lacking, because the treasure house of the Church’s merits is not full, and it will not be full until the end of the world.”

It is in this way that the idea of Co-Redemptrix is to be understood: as the Immaculately Conceived Mother of God, the Blessed Virgin participates most fully in the salvific work of the Body of Christ, above and beyond every other saint.
Reply
#12
(05-05-2012, 06:10 PM)Resurrexi Wrote: The title makes me incredibly uncomfortable; it places an inordinate emphasis on the Virgin Mary's role in salvation history to the detriment of a proper focus on Christ, who is His mother's Savior ("et exsultavit spiritus meus in Deo salutari meo") as well as ours.

That is why the Church has not declared it a dogma, really, even though once you wade through the literature, it is self-apparent Biblical teaching about the Communion of Saints.
Reply
#13
It should be kept in mind that the prefix "co-" does not necessarily mean that a thing and its complement are equal in anyway. It can carry that connotation (i.e. "cohesion"), but not necessarily so (i.e. "co-operate"). In the former example, the interaction of two separate realities must be equal in order to constitute the presence of the scientific law. In the latter example, however, the interaction of two (or more) separate realities does not require that they be equal in order to constitute the meaning of the word. For example, a mother might be trying to feed her child while the child closes its mouth forcefully so as not to allow the spoon to enter. The mother might then tell the child to cooperate, but this in no way means that the child's role in its own consumption of food is as significant as the provider's. The child has but to cooperate and everything else will be done for it.

In the same way, "coredemtrix" does not mean that Mary must be divine in order to be considered "co-" anything with God. We "co-operate" with God despite the fact that He is the First Cause of everything, including our salvation. This does not mean that our operation with God is on the same level as (or is equal in power to) His operation. Hardly, for His operation is much more significant than ours. Nevertheless, we still must freely participate in this "operation" of God's, in which sense we say that we "co-operate" with God. Mary being referred to as "coredemptrix" does not mean that She is placed on an equal plane; rather, it means that her particular co-operation with God's grace brought about the unique effect of the redemption, which was caused by God. This is a step above our cooperation in a sense because our cooperation cannot be said to have participated in and contributed to such a glorious end as the redemption. Is this sense, she is said to be the "Co-Redemptrix:" that is, she played a unique co-operative role in the work of the redemption.
Reply
#14
(05-05-2012, 06:18 PM)Parmandur Wrote: That is why the Church has not declared it a dogma, really, even though once you wade through the literature, it is self-apparent Biblical teaching about the Communion of Saints.
Dogmas are defined to correct errors. False ecumenism is a great error. Therefore, were Mary's Co-Redemtrix-ship defined as the Fifth Marian Dogma, it would strike the dragon of false ecumenism down to the pits of hell where it belongs. (Read why people are petitioning the Holy Father to define this dogma here.)

You've probably heard the story of how Vatican II was going to have a document devoted entirely to Mary and her Co-Redemptrix-ship, but then, in order to appease the Protestants et al., it was reduced to the last section of Lumen Gentium, which only mentions 4 titles of Mary (Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adjutrix, and Mediatrix), but not Co-Redemptrix. Vatican II's false ecumenism is one of its bad fruits and yet another reason why salvation only comes through Mary. :pray:

Here's a ZENIT article from 2002: "Why It's Not the Right Time for a Dogma on Mary as Co-redemptrix" :(

Also,
IUCUNDA SEMPER
EXPECTATIONE

ENCYCLICAL OF POPE LEO XIII
ON THE ROSARY

mentions Mary as Co-Redemptress.
Reply
#15
(05-06-2012, 01:55 AM)Geremia Wrote:
(05-05-2012, 06:18 PM)Parmandur Wrote: That is why the Church has not declared it a dogma, really, even though once you wade through the literature, it is self-apparent Biblical teaching about the Communion of Saints.
Dogmas are defined to corrects errors. False ecumenism is a great error. Therefore, were Mary's Co-Redemtrix-ship defined as the Fifth Marian Dogma, it would strike the dragon of false ecumenism down to the pits of hell where it belongs. (Read why people are petitioning the Holy Father to define this dogma here.)

You've probably heard the story of how Vatican II was going to have a document devoted entirely to Mary and her Co-Redemptrix-ship, but then, in order to appease the Protestants et al., it was reduced to the last section of Lumen Gentium, which only mentions 4 titles of Mary (Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adjutrix, and Mediatrix), but not Co-Redemptrix. Vatican II's false ecumenism is one of its bad fruits and yet another reason why salvation only comes through Mary. :pray:

Here's a ZENIT article from 2002: "Why It's Not the Right Time for a Dogma on Mary as Co-redemptrix" :(

Also,
IUCUNDA SEMPER
EXPECTATIONE

ENCYCLICAL OF POPE LEO XIII
ON THE ROSARY

mentions Mary as Co-Redemptress.

I'm as opposed to Protestantism as any trad, but when you say "salvation only comes through Mary," don't you feel you are obfuscating the centrality of Christ in the Catholic faith? The Nicene Creed, the most basic statement of Catholic orthodoxy, speaks at length about the work of Christ which redeemed man, but only briefly mentions the Virgin Mary when discussing the Incarnation. The other Marian dogmas all help emphasize the centrality of Christ, but the co-redemptrix title detracts from it. Remember what St. Peter taught on Pentecost:

Be it known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God hath raised from the dead, even by him this man standeth here before you whole. This is the stone which was rejected by you the builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other. For there is no other name under heaven given to men, whereby we must be saved.

Reply
#16
(05-06-2012, 02:51 AM)Resurrexi Wrote:
(05-06-2012, 01:55 AM)Geremia Wrote:
(05-05-2012, 06:18 PM)Parmandur Wrote: That is why the Church has not declared it a dogma, really, even though once you wade through the literature, it is self-apparent Biblical teaching about the Communion of Saints.
Dogmas are defined to corrects errors. False ecumenism is a great error. Therefore, were Mary's Co-Redemtrix-ship defined as the Fifth Marian Dogma, it would strike the dragon of false ecumenism down to the pits of hell where it belongs. (Read why people are petitioning the Holy Father to define this dogma here.)

You've probably heard the story of how Vatican II was going to have a document devoted entirely to Mary and her Co-Redemptrix-ship, but then, in order to appease the Protestants et al., it was reduced to the last section of Lumen Gentium, which only mentions 4 titles of Mary (Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adjutrix, and Mediatrix), but not Co-Redemptrix. Vatican II's false ecumenism is one of its bad fruits and yet another reason why salvation only comes through Mary. :pray:

Here's a ZENIT article from 2002: "Why It's Not the Right Time for a Dogma on Mary as Co-redemptrix" :(

Also,
IUCUNDA SEMPER
EXPECTATIONE

ENCYCLICAL OF POPE LEO XIII
ON THE ROSARY

mentions Mary as Co-Redemptress.

I'm as opposed to Protestantism as any trad, but when you say "salvation only comes through Mary," don't you feel you are obfuscating the centrality of Christ in the Catholic faith? The Nicene Creed, the most basic statement of Catholic orthodoxy, speaks at length about the work of Christ which redeemed man, but only briefly mentions the Virgin Mary when discussing the Incarnation. The other Marian dogmas all help emphasize the centrality of Christ, but the co-redemptrix title detracts from it. Remember what St. Peter taught on Pentecost:

Be it known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God hath raised from the dead, even by him this man standeth here before you whole. This is the stone which was rejected by you the builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other. For there is no other name under heaven given to men, whereby we must be saved.

Christ comes to us through Mary.  Hence the title Co-Redemptrix, not because she has an equal role in salvation, but her participation in the Incarnation is essential to God's work.
Reply
#17
Of course Mary participated in Christ's work of salvation--which was Christ's work of salvation--but that doesn't mean we need disproportionally to emphasize this role, or that we need to use easily misleading titles.

This has nothing to do with ecumenism. Let us celebrate joyfully and proudly the feasts of Mary's Immaculate Conception and Assumption, and let us boldly proclaim our belief in these divinely revealed dogmas, both opposed by Protestants.

But remember, by the Immaculate Conception, the Father prepared a worthy dwelling-place for His Incarnate Son; by the Assumption, He deigned that the vessel which held His Son not fall into decay. Both of these dogmas emphasize the centrality of Christ by respecting the vessel that held Him, just as the centrality of the Eucharist is emphasized by treating respectfully the vessel which holds that Sacrament. The title of co-redemptrix, however, rather than emphasizing the centrality of Christ--our only Savior and Redeemer--places undue stress on the Virgin Mary.
Reply
#18
(05-06-2012, 02:51 AM)Resurrexi Wrote: The other Marian dogmas all help emphasize the centrality of Christ, but the co-redemptrix title detracts from it. Remember what St. Peter taught on Pentecost:

Be it known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God hath raised from the dead, even by him this man standeth here before you whole. This is the stone which was rejected by you the builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other. For there is no other name under heaven given to men, whereby we must be saved.

The doctrine of Co-Redemptrix in absolutely no way detracts from the centrality of Christ. Without Christ, there is no redemption. Without Mary, there is no Christ.
Reply
#19
Here's an excellent passage from Ludwig Ott's Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma:
Quote:Mary’s co-operation in the Redemption

The title Corredemptrix = Coredemptress, which has been current since the fifteenth century, and which also appears in some official Church documents under Pius X (cf. D 1978 a), must not be conceived in the sense of an equation of the efficacy of Mary with the redemptive activity of Christ, the sole Redeemer of humanity (1 Tim. 2:5). As she herself required redemption and in fact was redeemed by Christ, she could not of herself merit the grace of the redemption of humanity in accordance with the principle: Principium meriti non cadit sub eodem merito. (The author of an act of merit cannot be a recipient of the same act of merit.) Her co-operation in the objective redemption is an indirect, remote co-operation, and derives from this that she voluntarily devoted her whole life to the service of the Redeemer, and, under the Cross, suffered and sacrificed with Him. As Pope Pius XII says in the Encyclical “Mystici Corporis” (1943), she “offered Him on Golgotha to the Eternal Father together with the holocaust of her maternal rights and her motherly love like a new Eve for all children of Adam” (D 2291). As “The New Eve” she is, as the same Pope declares, in the Apostolic Constitution “Munificentissimus Deus” (1950) “the sublime associate of our Redeemer” (alma Redemptoris nostri socia [cf. Gn. 3:12]). Cf. D. 3031: generoso Divini Redemptoris socia.

Christ alone truly offered the sacrifice of atonement on the Cross; Mary merely gave Him moral support in this action. Thus Mary is not entitled to the title “Priest” (sacerdos). Indeed this is expressly laid down by the Holy Office (1916, 1927). Christ, as the Church teaches, “conquered the enemy of the human race alone (solus)” (D 711); in the same way, He alone acquired the grace of Redemption for the whole human race, including Mary. The words of Luke 1:38: “Behold the handmaid of the Lord,” imply Mary’s mediate, remote co-operation in the Redemption. St. Ambrose expressly teaches: “Christ’s Passion did not require any support” (De inst. virg. 7). In the power of the grace of Redemption merited by Christ, Mary, by her spiritual entering into the sacrifice of her Divine Son for men, made atonement for the sins of men, and (de congruo) merited the application of the redemptive grace of Christ. In this manner she co-operates in the subjective redemption of mankind.

The statement of Pope Pius X in the Encyclical “Ad diem illum” (1904): (Beata Virgo) de congruo, ut aiunt, promeret nobis, quae Christus de condigno promeruit (D 1978 a) (The Blessed Virgin merits for us de congruo what Christ merited de condigno) is, as the present tense “promeret” shows, not indeed to be taken as referring to the historical objective Redemption, which occurred once and for all, but to her ever-present, intercessory co-operation in the subjective redemption.
Reply
#20
(05-06-2012, 02:51 AM)Resurrexi Wrote: I'm as opposed to Protestantism as any trad, but when you say "salvation only comes through Mary," don't you feel you are obfuscating the centrality of Christ in the Catholic faith?
No, because Christ is the salvation who comes through Mary. Our salvation comes through no other.
(05-06-2012, 02:51 AM)Resurrexi Wrote: The Nicene Creed, the most basic statement of Catholic orthodoxy, speaks at length about the work of Christ which redeemed man, but only briefly mentions the Virgin Mary when discussing the Incarnation. The other Marian dogmas all help emphasize the centrality of Christ, but the co-redemptrix title detracts from it. Remember what St. Peter taught on Pentecost:

Be it known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God hath raised from the dead, even by him this man standeth here before you whole. This is the stone which was rejected by you the builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other. For there is no other name under heaven given to men, whereby we must be saved.
Ludwig Otts Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma Wrote:
§ 7. The Mediatorship of Mary
Although Christ is the Sole Mediator between God and man ([URL=http://"http://biblia.com/reference/1Ti2.5"]1 Tim. 2:5[/URL]),  since He alone, by His death on the Cross, fully reconciled mankind  with God, this does not exclude a secondary mediatorship, subordinated  to Christ (cf. [URL=http://"http://biblia.com/reference/Summa.STh.%2c_III_q.26_a.1"]S. th.[/URL][URL=http://"http://biblia.com/reference/Summa.STh.%2c_III_q.26_a.1"] III 26, 1[/URL]). “To unite men to God perfectively (perfective) appertains to Christ according to [URL=http://"http://biblia.com/reference/2Co5.19"]2 Cor. 5:19[/URL].  Therefore Christ alone is the perfect mediator between God and man,  inasmuch as He reconciled mankind with God by His death.… But there is  nothing to prevent others in a certain way (secundum quid) from being called mediators between God and man, in so far as they, by preparing or serving (dispositive vel ministeraliter), co-operate in uniting men to God.”
The Fathers called Mary the “Go-between” (μεσίτης, mediatrix). A prayer ascribed to St. Ephrem says of her: “After the Mediator thou art the mediatrix of the whole world” (post mediatorem mediatrix totius mundi: [URL=http://"http://biblia.com/reference/GregoryNazianzen.Orat._30"]Oratio IV[/URL] ad Deiparam. 4th Lesson of the Office of the Feast). The title Mediatrix is attached to Mary in official Church documents also, for example, in the Bull “Ineffabilis” of Pope Pius IX (1854); in the Rosary Encyclicals “Adiutricem” and “Fidentem” ([URL=http://"http://biblia.com/books/fundcatdogma/Page.p_213#"]D[/URL] [URL=http://"http://biblia.com/reference/SCD.1940"]1940[/URL] a) of Pope Leo XIII. (1895 and 1896); in the Encyclical “Ad diem illum” of Pope Pius X (1904). It has also been received into the Liturgy of the Church through the introduction of the Feast of M. Mariae Virginis omnium gratiarum Mediatricis (1921).
Mary is designated mediatrix of all graces in a double sense:
1. Mary gave the Redeemer, the Source of all graces, to the world, and in this way she is the channel of all graces. (Sent. certa.)
2. Since Mary’s Assumption into Heaven no grace is conferred on man without her actual intercessory co-operation. (Sent. pia et probabilis).
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)