Introducing people to the TLM via the Novus Ordo

[Silouan]

Now I'm really confused! If the the Novus Ordo and Traditional Mass are nothing but a distinction without a difference, then what has all the fuss been about?

Ever been to a Novus Ordo mass?

Two or three times when I was about 10-12 years old (over 20 years ago). Never as an adult. Seen videos of it many times on EWTN.

[Might_4_Right]

I'm no academic and I don't pretend to understand why there has to be two forms of the same rite. I just wish they would dump the Novus Ordo and end the confusion.

[Might_4_Right]

What he meant was not a multitude of rites, but two so called "forms of one rite."

"One true Church........one true mass."


Not sure how I misread that.  ???

If it means one true Mass as in only the Roman Rite, that is incorrect.

Even if we restrict the statement only to the Roman Rite hasn't there been multiple forms of that rite in use at the same time for a long time now? What's the difference between a Low Mass, High Mass and Missa Cantata?

Whatever! Most knew what I meant.

[Might_4_Right]

What he meant was not a multitude of rites, but two so called "forms of one rite."

Thanks for the clarification Crusader_Philly or should I just call you Bruno Mars.  :)

[mikemac]

I'm taking a friend that has never been to anything but the Novus Ordo to the Latin Mass this coming Sunday.  It will be a Missa Cantata, a sung low Mass with just one priest.  I'm sure my friend will be impressed.  I am using the right term, Missa Cantata aren't I?  I had to look it up after Tim suggested it.  It seems there are two different meanings to it.

"Missa Cantata (Latin for "sung Mass" ) is a form of Tridentine Mass defined officially in 1960 as a sung Mass celebrated without sacred ministers, i.e., deacon and subdeacon."

"While the Baltimore Ceremonial thus classifed the Missa Cantata as a High Mass, Adrian Fortescue wrote in his 1910 article "Liturgy of the Mass" in the Catholic Encyclopedia, that a Missa Cantata "is really a low Mass, since the essence of high Mass is not the music but the deacon and subdeacon."

Anyway our priest offers a sung low Tridentine Mass.

[The_Harlequin_King]

I'm taking a friend that has never been to anything but the Novus Ordo to the Latin Mass this coming Sunday.  It will be a Missa Cantata, a sung low Mass with just one priest.  I'm sure my friend will be impressed.  I am using the right term, Missa Cantata aren't I?  I had to look it up after Tim suggested it.  It seems there are two different meanings to it.

Yes. Even though a sung Mass is colloquially referred to as "high Mass" because it has music, it's technically still a low Mass, but sung. A high Mass, or solemn Mass, properly has a deacon and subdeacon. The solemn Mass is virtually extinct even in trad-dom outside of seminaries and pontifical rites...... and that's a very bad sign.

[mikemac]

Thanks The Harlequin King.  Yeah I remember when I was a kid the High Mass was always the later 11 o'clock Mass.

[Tim]

Pardon for confusing with Missa Cantata, but ol' HK is right on the money. High Mass needs a deacon, and a sub-deacon. If only a priest it's a low Mass, and they were called Cantata if sung, Dialogata if the congregation fully patrcicipated saying the ordinary and responses, and recitata is just the responses. See St. Andrew Missal for details.

If someone has an old St. Joseph Daily Missal from before the Council would you look at the Levabo for me, I seem to remember it was bolded and could be said by the congregation, too.

tim

[JayneK]

Yes. Even though a sung Mass is colloquially referred to as "high Mass" because it has music, it's technically still a low Mass, but sung. A high Mass, or solemn Mass, properly has a deacon and subdeacon. The solemn Mass is virtually extinct even in trad-dom outside of seminaries and pontifical rites...... and that's a very bad sign.

In Toronto, the Oratorians celebrate a high Mass every week.  Because there is a community of them, there are multiple priests to draw on.  I think that it would be difficult to manage in a normal parish setting. It is a bit too far for me to go every week but I get to it at least once a month. 

Also the Una Voce people organize a high Mass for various solemnities throughout the year.  If people have not attended a high Mass, I recommend going to one if the opportunity arises. 

[Tim]

In the parish where I did my growing up, we had six priests and a Bishop, and it was rare to have a High Mass, it was mostly the sung Mass on Sunday and later in the morning.

tim