We must have "Romanitas"
#11
(05-09-2012, 11:49 PM)Melkite Wrote:
(05-09-2012, 11:26 PM)Might_4_Right Wrote: Or maybe someone other than God was whispering into Michael Cerularius ear.

Clearly, but what does that have to do with this?

Sorry about that Melkite! I was under the false assumption you were Eastern Orthodox.
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#12
(05-10-2012, 12:46 AM)Might_4_Right Wrote:
(05-09-2012, 11:49 PM)Melkite Wrote:
(05-09-2012, 11:26 PM)Might_4_Right Wrote: Or maybe someone other than God was whispering into Michael Cerularius ear.

Clearly, but what does that have to do with this?

Sorry about that Melkite! I was under the false assumption you were Eastern Orthodox.

Oh, ok, no problem!
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#13
(05-09-2012, 10:27 PM)Melkite Wrote:
(05-09-2012, 10:16 AM)Old Salt Wrote:  
"All must be restored in Christo Domino - "in Christ the Lord," in Rome as elsewhere.

Let us love to see how the ways of Divine Providence and Wisdom pass by Rome. We will conclude that one cannot be Catholic without being Roman. This applies also to Catholics who have neither the Latin language nor the Roman liturgy. If they remain Catholic, it is because they remain Roman like the Maronites, for example, by the ties to the Catholic and Roman French culture which formed them.

It is, moreover, an error to speak of Roman culture as Western. The converts from Judaism brought with them from the Orient all that was Christian, all that which in the Old Testament was preparation and could be a component of Christianity, all that which Our Lord had assumed and that the Holy Ghost had inspired the Apostles to adopt. How many times do the epistles of St. Paul teach us on this subject!

God willed that Christianity, cast in a certain way in the Roman mold, receive from it a vigorous and exceptional expansion. All is grace in the divine plan and Our Divine Savior disposes all as the Romans are said to act, that is, "cum consilio et patientia or suaviter et fortiter" - "with counsel and patience, sweetly and mightily" (Wis 8:1).

Ours is the duty to guard "

If Archbishop Lefebvre was suggesting that one must become Latinized even if not belonging to the Latin church in order to be truly Catholic, then this is just more reason to reject SSPX since it means someone other than God was whispering into the ear of Lefebvre's heart.

"Romanitas" or "Raomanity", as the late Archbishop points out, is not tied to being "Western" or "Latin."  Indeed, I have often seen Orthodox accuse Catholics of not being sufficiently Roman, as in, Imperial, or perhaps more accurately citizens of Christendom.  The East disliked the Germanic lords for not being Roman, for lacking civilization.  ++Lefebvre was calling for Christian civilization, not Latin.
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#14
(05-10-2012, 01:29 AM)Parmandur Wrote: "Romanitas" or "Raomanity", as the late Archbishop points out, is not tied to being "Western" or "Latin."  Indeed, I have often seen Orthodox accuse Catholics of not being sufficiently Roman, as in, Imperial, or perhaps more accurately citizens of Christendom.  The East disliked the Germanic lords for not being Roman, for lacking civilization.  ++Lefebvre was calling for Christian civilization, not Latin.

Really?  Even the parts where he says being Roman is not just for Westerners and Christianity as molded in Rome has a certain divine privilege?  I'm trying to read it as you suggest but those parts jump out to me as not matching up.
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#15
It ain't right. Romanita is the machinations which go on in the Curia. That's the back stabbing, slow walking, and personal agendas of certain Cardinals and their Msgrs. It makes no sense either for the other Churches in the East, either. I have a friend that is an Eastern Rite Catholic and these types of remarks makes them bristle. We ignore their trials and then only think of them when they must come to heel. Insane !

tim
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#16
(05-10-2012, 08:00 AM)Melkite Wrote:
(05-10-2012, 01:29 AM)Parmandur Wrote: "Romanitas" or "Raomanity", as the late Archbishop points out, is not tied to being "Western" or "Latin."  Indeed, I have often seen Orthodox accuse Catholics of not being sufficiently Roman, as in, Imperial, or perhaps more accurately citizens of Christendom.  The East disliked the Germanic lords for not being Roman, for lacking civilization.  ++Lefebvre was calling for Christian civilization, not Latin.

Really?  Even the parts where he says being Roman is not just for Westerners and Christianity as molded in Rome has a certain divine privilege?  I'm trying to read it as you suggest but those parts jump out to me as not matching up.

Well, I admit that I am proposing the most charitable reading, but it would seem to be the accurate one to me.  The whole Pentarchy is part of "Romanitas," of the Roman civilization that was the cradle of the Church and in way has been immortalized by being incorporated into the Church, and that is what I believe he is referring to.  The Egyptian Desert Fathers were part of the Roman world, as where the Greek theologians.
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#17
Vetus, not to derail but you made quite a claim.  What is your objection to ICKSP (ICRSS)?  Despite the claims of some, I can tell you that there is a very Econe element to this order.  I will keep it at that.

Of course, I invite your opinions and observations, which I find to be very valuable contributions
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