Speculation on the 3rd Secret of Fatima
#51
(05-10-2012, 09:12 PM)DrBombay Wrote: Oh, and by the way.  Leo XIII never had a vision of Satan and 100 years or anything of the kind.  It's an urban legend. Just try to find a primary source.  Not a secondary source, a PRIMARY.  You can't.  It doesn't exist. Because the story is concocted by loons with an agenda most likely.

Why do you think Pope Leo XIII who composed the Prayer to Saint Michael the Archangel prescribed to say it after Low Mass.
http://www.sanctamissa.org/en/resources/...-mass.html

It is still said after the Latin Low Mass.  Including at the Diocesan Latin Low Mass that I attend, along with all of the Leonine Prayers.

From catholicculture.org  Not a good enough source for you?  Oh well.
http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/l...ecnum=1217
Quote:For the greater part of this century, the faithful recited the prayer to St. Michael at the end of the Mass. Pope Leo XIII (d. 1903) had a prophetic vision of the coming century of sorrow and war. After celebrating Mass, the Holy Father was conferring with his cardinals. Suddenly, he fell to the floor. The cardinals immediately called for a doctor. No pulse was detected, and the Holy Father was feared dead. Just as suddenly, Pope Leo awoke and said, "What a horrible picture I was permitted to see!" In this vision, God gave Satan the choice of one century in which to do his worst work against the Church. The devil chose the twentieth century. So moved was the Holy Father from this vision that he composed the prayer to St. Michael the Archangel: "St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle! Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him, we humbly pray, and do thou, O Prince of the heavenly host, by the power of God, thrust into Hell Satan and all the other evil spirits who roam about the world seeking the ruin of souls." Pope Leo ordered this prayer said at the conclusion of Mass in 1886. (When Pope Paul VI issued the Novus Ordo of the Mass in 1968, the prayer to St. Michael and the reading of the "last gospel" at the end of the Mass were suppressed.)

...

In the spring of 1994, our Holy Father, Pope John Paul II, urged the faithful to offer the prayer to St. Michael the Archangel. He also made the strong suggestion that the recitation of the prayer be instituted at Mass once again. (Note that the Holy Father did not mandate the recitation of the prayer at Mass.) Clearly, the Holy Father was responding to the grave evils we see present in our world — the sins of abortion, euthanasia, terrorism, genocide, and the like. As we approach Y2K, Satan and the other fallen angels are doing their best to lead souls to Hell. We need the help of St. Michael. For this reason, many parishes have erected a shrine in St. Michael's honor or offer the prayer at the end of Mass or after the petitions.
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#52
I just happened to to be listening to a lecture by the Catholic author and apologist John Salza that he gave at the Fatima conference in Rome.
He seems to think the unrevealed Fatima secret may contain information regarding the masonic origin of the apostasy in The Church. 
I've added a short clip of his thoughts on the subject at the link below:

For those short on time this link is a short clip of his theory.


When and if you have the time the following link is the Full 45 min talk
http://www.fatimachallenge.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=63:masonry-unmasked&catid=21&Itemid=15

Source: John Salza: Masonry Unmasked Fatima conference May 3, 2010

John Salza website: http://www.scripturecatholic.com/
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#53
(05-10-2012, 09:12 PM)DrBombay Wrote: Oh, and by the way.  Leo XIII never had a vision of Satan and 100 years or anything of the kind.  It's an urban legend. Just try to find a primary source.  Not a secondary source, a PRIMARY.  You can't.  It doesn't exist. Because the story is concocted by loons with an agenda most likely.

I tend to believe that.  I reckon it is horseshit.

This sort of stuff is made up by some kook, fits an agenda and then is so repeated it becomes a Trad truth.
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#54
(05-10-2012, 09:34 PM)DrBombay Wrote: No, you just need to call the Vicar of Christ a liar. 

He is a liar.  What part of "published here in its entirity" don't you understand?

If there is another part, then B16 lied (when he was still Cardinal Ratziner).  He wrote those words.  His signature is underneath.

And he has a duty to correct that lie now as B16.

The case that there is another part is proven beyond reasonable doubt.
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#55
(05-10-2012, 09:39 PM)JuniorCouncilor Wrote: A) That does not call for the hat-tipping smiley.
B) Bad form, Doc.

Perhaps I should have used this guy, he's always reliable.  :bronxcheer:

:tiphat:
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#56
(05-10-2012, 09:45 PM)Jesusbrea Wrote:
(05-10-2012, 09:12 PM)DrBombay Wrote: Oh, and by the way.  Leo XIII never had a vision of Satan and 100 years or anything of the kind.  It's an urban legend. Just try to find a primary source.  Not a secondary source, a PRIMARY.  You can't.  It doesn't exist. Because the story is concocted by loons with an agenda most likely.

Yeah, talk about conspiracy theories.

There are witnesses accounts like those of Fr. Domenico Pechenino or Cdl. Rocca

PRIMARY source documents.  Throwing out names is not a PRIMARY source.   :tiphat:
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#57
(05-10-2012, 10:04 PM)James02 Wrote:
Quote: No, you just need to call the Vicar of Christ a liar.
Except he wasn't the Vicar of Christ when he lied now, was he?  You missed that one.

Nice dissembling.   :tiphat:
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#58
(05-10-2012, 10:43 PM)mikemac Wrote:
(05-10-2012, 09:12 PM)DrBombay Wrote: Oh, and by the way.  Leo XIII never had a vision of Satan and 100 years or anything of the kind.  It's an urban legend. Just try to find a primary source.  Not a secondary source, a PRIMARY.  You can't.  It doesn't exist. Because the story is concocted by loons with an agenda most likely.

Why do you think Pope Leo XIII who composed the Prayer to Saint Michael the Archangel prescribed to say it after Low Mass.
http://www.sanctamissa.org/en/resources/...-mass.html

It is still said after the Latin Low Mass.  Including at the Diocesan Latin Low Mass that I attend, along with all of the Leonine Prayers.

From catholicculture.org  Not a good enough source for you?  Oh well.
http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/l...ecnum=1217
Quote:For the greater part of this century, the faithful recited the prayer to St. Michael at the end of the Mass. Pope Leo XIII (d. 1903) had a prophetic vision of the coming century of sorrow and war. After celebrating Mass, the Holy Father was conferring with his cardinals. Suddenly, he fell to the floor. The cardinals immediately called for a doctor. No pulse was detected, and the Holy Father was feared dead. Just as suddenly, Pope Leo awoke and said, "What a horrible picture I was permitted to see!" In this vision, God gave Satan the choice of one century in which to do his worst work against the Church. The devil chose the twentieth century. So moved was the Holy Father from this vision that he composed the prayer to St. Michael the Archangel: "St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle! Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him, we humbly pray, and do thou, O Prince of the heavenly host, by the power of God, thrust into Hell Satan and all the other evil spirits who roam about the world seeking the ruin of souls." Pope Leo ordered this prayer said at the conclusion of Mass in 1886. (When Pope Paul VI issued the Novus Ordo of the Mass in 1968, the prayer to St. Michael and the reading of the "last gospel" at the end of the Mass were suppressed.)

...

In the spring of 1994, our Holy Father, Pope John Paul II, urged the faithful to offer the prayer to St. Michael the Archangel. He also made the strong suggestion that the recitation of the prayer be instituted at Mass once again. (Note that the Holy Father did not mandate the recitation of the prayer at Mass.) Clearly, the Holy Father was responding to the grave evils we see present in our world — the sins of abortion, euthanasia, terrorism, genocide, and the like. As we approach Y2K, Satan and the other fallen angels are doing their best to lead souls to Hell. We need the help of St. Michael. For this reason, many parishes have erected a shrine in St. Michael's honor or offer the prayer at the end of Mass or after the petitions.

Why did he compose it? The loss of the Papal States would seem to be sufficient reason to me.  No visions of booger man being necessary to indicate the situation of the Church was precarious to say the least.

And catholicculture.org is not a PRIMARY source. 

http://www.calstatela.edu/library/guides/pswhat.htm

Quote:Primary sources are the first hand evidence left behind by participants or observers at the time of events.

"Primary sources originate in the time period that historians are studying.  They vary a great deal. They may include personal memoirs, government documents, transcripts of legal proceedings, oral histories and traditions, archaeological and biological evidence, and visual sources like paintings and photographs. " ( Storey, William Kelleher.  Writing History: A guide for Students. New York, NY: Oxford University Press, 1999, p.18).
 

:tiphat:
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#59
(05-11-2012, 06:46 AM)ggreg Wrote:
(05-10-2012, 09:34 PM)DrBombay Wrote: No, you just need to call the Vicar of Christ a liar. 

He is a liar.  What part of "published here in its entirity" don't you understand?

If there is another part, then B16 lied (when he was still Cardinal Ratziner).  He wrote those words.  His signature is underneath.

And he has a duty to correct that lie now as B16.

The case that there is another part is proven beyond reasonable doubt.

Unfortunately, the third secret is a SECRET! 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/secret Wrote:se·cret
adj \ˈsē-krət\
Definition of SECRET
1. a : kept from knowledge or view : hidden

What this means is, unless you've actually seen the supposed "real" secret yourself, you have no idea what it says.  Because it's a secret, you see?

And anyone who claims to have seen it took an oath not to reveal its contents.  Therefore, if they say what it contains or even hint at it, they have lied to God.  And if what they say it contains is false, they have lied to us.  In any event, they are a liar.

So, you'll excuse me if I entertain more than a reasonable doubt.  In fact I may say that I possess ontological and epistemological certainty that someone here is lying and it's not the Vicar of Christ but might, perhaps, for some crazy reason, be someone hawking a book or otherwise trying to enrich themselves.  Wacky idea, but it is mine own.

I mean, if someone actually knows the exact text of the third secret, I'd appreciate it if they would post it here for the edification and enlightenment (heh) of all.  Go ahead. 

No really, go ahead.  I'm waiting. 

We all are.  Really. 

Please, do go on.



Uh huh.  'Swhat I thought.  :tiphat:
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#60
Dr. Bombastic,

Why not address the evidence in Ferrara and Socci's books - you clown?
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