Disagreeing with old friends
#1
I have mentioned before that my best friend since childhood recently became an atheist.  Her husband, who is also an old friend, did too.  We made a brief visit to them when we were in the area to attend the March for Life.  I mentioned to them how there was a small counter-demonstration of "pro-choicers" who were shouting at us and throwing condoms.  I added a comment along the lines that this was good for our children to see this and understand the pro-choice position. 

Our friends did not say anything at the time but have sent an email to say that they are strongly pro-choice now and are insulted that we spoke slightingly of pro-choicers.

I am hoping for advice and prayers concerning this situation.
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#2
A tough situation. Hard to gauge the specifics of your exchange, but I would suggest explaining your position in a firm but non-belligerent manner, and an acknowledgement that radicals who throw condoms are not representative of "pro-choicers" at large.
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#3
Strongly pro-choice AND atheist?  Here's the advice: don't cast your pearls before swine.

Were they Catholic before, as in church going?  How much time do you have to devote?  Sounds like they are somewhat far away.  Shake the dust of their house from your feet and move on to better things.

In 5 years they'll be assisting the Human Rights police in tracking you and your husband down.
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#4
(05-12-2012, 11:57 AM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote: A tough situation. Hard to gauge the specifics of your exchange, but I would suggest explaining your position in a firm but non-belligerent manner, and an acknowledgement that radicals who throw condoms are not representative of "pro-choicers" at large.

What I actually said to our children was that the behaviour of the pro-choicers was not surprising since it is an intellectually bereft position.  I did not tell them that behviour is typical, just that it is the sort of thing that one might see from people who cannot make a reasoned argument.

While I do not think that our friends would throw condoms,  I do not think they are capable of a logical argument for why human life in the womb should not have any rights.  Such an argument does not exist.
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#5
Most "pro choice" people I run in to fall into two camps:
1.  They are young, and dread a pregnancy, and want to be able to kill the baby if the need arises.  The abortion argument is low on their priorities when it comes to voting.
2.  They have weak wills and mouth the pro-choice mantra because they are SUPPOSED to say these things.  Due to psych reasons, they may be slightly more pro-choice and would vote for Obama because the conventional wisdom is that they are SUPPOSED to.  At the same time, if there are bigger issues, like a crappy economy, the "pro-choice" belief would fall in priority.

Your friend describe themselves as "strongly" pro-choice (as well as atheist).  They evidently are dear friends, so you might venture on your fool's errand.  The first thing is to question them on "partial birth" abortion.  Then question them on infanticide if they are for partial birth abortion.

Then again, why wouldn't an atheist support abortion?  Why would they have any absolute?  So realistically the atheism has to be defeated first.

The best person for advise is yourself.  You came from a liberal jewish background and converted.  Your husband played a big role.  So what was nagging you?  Why were you open to find answers?

The last two lines in my sig line come from a Jewish convert.  It seems like there is some push from Grace.

You come from a liberal background.  Get used to seeing all your friends slip away.  The darkness can not abide by the light.
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#6
(05-12-2012, 12:00 PM)James02 Wrote: Strongly pro-choice AND atheist?  Here's the advice: don't cast your pearls before swine.

Were they Catholic before, as in church going?  How much time do you have to devote?  Sounds like they are somewhat far away.  Shake the dust of their house from your feet and move on to better things.

In 5 years they'll be assisting the Human Rights police in tracking you and your husband down.

They were not Catholic.  They used to be practicing Protestants, but they were somewhat pro-life.
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#7
Throwing condoms is a joke compared to supporting stabbing a knife into the head of a nine month old baby.  
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#8
Go after the atheism first if you must.  Drop the pro-life argument.  I can't see any atheist LOGICALLY supporting the pro-life position.  If an atheist is pro-life, it is because his spiritual side is not completely walled off yet.  But it is an illogical position for them to hold.  There is no right and wrong without God.
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#9
(05-12-2012, 12:25 PM)James02 Wrote: Go after the atheism first if you must.  Drop the pro-life argument.  I can't see any atheist LOGICALLY supporting the pro-life position.  If an atheist is pro-life, it is because his spiritual side is not completely walled off yet.  But it is an illogical position for them to hold.  There is no right and wrong without God.

My sense is that they are taking a pro-choice stance as an expression of their atheism.  They see the protection of innocent human life as religious people imposing their religion on others.  They are militant atheists.
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#10
Well, if you must, start a Rosary novena, then go after the atheism.  But if they are far away, then consider all the other things you could be offering up your novena for.  Maybe you offer up one of your Masses for them, then leave it in God's hands.  Miracles happen.
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