Pope Calling Our Bluff?
(05-18-2012, 11:03 AM)Gerard Wrote:
Quote:  Might I even point out these recent statements: "Benedict XVI’s Newchurch includes elements both Catholic and non-Catholic. But even partly non-Catholic is not Catholic as a whole. Therefore Benedict’s ecumenical Newchurch is, as such, not the Catholic Church."

Obviously it's difficult to explain and understand. I prefer the example of "The Great Facade" a different political agenda that gets most of the emphasis sitting on top of the structure of the Church. 

Gerard, by  "The Great Facade" , are you referring to the book (or ideas in the book) by Tom Woods & Chris Ferrara? 
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(05-18-2012, 11:37 AM)FHM310 Wrote:
(05-18-2012, 11:03 AM)Gerard Wrote:
Quote:  Might I even point out these recent statements: "Benedict XVI’s Newchurch includes elements both Catholic and non-Catholic. But even partly non-Catholic is not Catholic as a whole. Therefore Benedict’s ecumenical Newchurch is, as such, not the Catholic Church."

Obviously it's difficult to explain and understand. I prefer the example of "The Great Facade" a different political agenda that gets most of the emphasis sitting on top of the structure of the Church. 

Gerard, by  "The Great Facade" , are you referring to the book (or ideas in the book) by Tom Woods & Chris Ferrara? 

The term originated in a conversation between Fr. Malachi Martin and Bernard Janzen, Toms Woods and Chris Ferrara took that term and used it to explain the whole "trad thing" in that book.  The subtitle is also helpful "The Regime of Novelty." 
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(05-18-2012, 12:03 PM)Gerard Wrote:
(05-18-2012, 11:37 AM)FHM310 Wrote:
(05-18-2012, 11:03 AM)Gerard Wrote:
Quote:  Might I even point out these recent statements: "Benedict XVI’s Newchurch includes elements both Catholic and non-Catholic. But even partly non-Catholic is not Catholic as a whole. Therefore Benedict’s ecumenical Newchurch is, as such, not the Catholic Church."

Obviously it's difficult to explain and understand. I prefer the example of "The Great Facade" a different political agenda that gets most of the emphasis sitting on top of the structure of the Church. 

Gerard, by  "The Great Facade" , are you referring to the book (or ideas in the book) by Tom Woods & Chris Ferrara? 

The term originated in a conversation between Fr. Malachi Martin and Bernard Janzen, Toms Woods and Chris Ferrara took that term and used it to explain the whole "trad thing" in that book.  The subtitle is also helpful "The Regime of Novelty." 

Thanks!
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ggreg:

I know precisely what you mean when you speak of the name of traditional Catholic being diluted over the years. I remember, twenty-five years ago or so, Father James Wathen requiring anyone attending his chapels and wanting to receive communion to clear it with him first. He required prospective chapel-goers to repent of their past participation in the Novus Ordo and the Conciliar religion (the former being an expression of the latter), promise to have nothing whatever to do with it in the future, and confess to it in the confessional. In fact, he forbad these things even in the case of family weddings, baptisms, and funerals. All this he did primarily to protect the Blessed Sacrament, human respect be damned.

Second, he demanded from everyone that they never attend traditional masses said by priests of the Conciliar church. This he said on grounds that it is doctrine that is paramount. Having the mass is by no means enough, he thought, and schismatics and heretics, after all, have the traditional mass in some cases. Doctrine, doctrine, doctrine. This practice of so many who call themselves traditional Catholics of mingling liturgically and otherwise with the Conciliars he would have thought simply traiterous.

And he was right
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(05-18-2012, 02:16 PM)venerbaeda Wrote: ggreg:

I know precisely what you mean when you speak of the name of traditional Catholic being diluted over the years. I remember, twenty-five years ago or so, Father James Wathen requiring anyone attending his chapels and wanting to receive communion to clear it with him first. He required prospective chapel-goers to repent of their past participation in the Novus Ordo and the Conciliar religion (the former being an expression of the latter), promise to have nothing whatever to do with it in the future, and confess to it in the confessional. In fact, he forbad these things even in the case of family weddings, baptisms, and funerals. All this he did primarily to protect the Blessed Sacrament, human respect be damned.

Second, he demanded from everyone that they never attend traditional masses said by priests of the Conciliar church. This he said on grounds that it is doctrine that is paramount. Having the mass is by no means enough, he thought, and schismatics and heretics, after all, have the traditional mass in some cases. Doctrine, doctrine, doctrine. This practice of so many who call themselves traditional Catholics of mingling liturgically and otherwise with the Conciliars he would have thought simply traiterous.

And he was right
Is it then safe to say you think the Novus Ordo is not a valid Mass?
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