Male Spirituality
#46
(06-06-2012, 09:35 PM)StrictCatholicGirl Wrote: First, I'm not at all saying there isn't such a thing as manliness. I'm questioning where we get our modern definitions and role models. Certainly not from the Bible! King David was a warrior and a ladies man. But he was also a shepherd and a poet and a harpist. He wept with abandon. He danced with abandon. He wasn't anything like Scriptorium's grandfather and mine, who didn't touch, hug, cry or dared show too much emotion. Of course, that could be a cultural thing. Which brings me back to the advocates of male spirituality. So far the ones I've come across are all American and raised on cowboys and football. Real men don't cry and all that. And they certainly don't kiss Jesus on the lips. Right? 

I read that piece from Fr. Cantalamassa and I agree that agape shouldn't be separated from eros. In fact I even started a thread about that many years ago. But I'm not sure what your point is. Did you ever read some of the writings of St. Francis of Assisi? Some are downright embarrassing by our standards. But, as lolanthe once said, he was medieval, and Italian, and a poet.  So maybe we're dealing with cultural hangups here.

I provided the link to Fr. Cantalamassa's sermon in order to provide the source for the quotation in my post- that's all. I was not trying to use his entire talk as such to bolster my position. You seem to suggest, though, that not wanting to kiss Christ on the lips is of the same order of hyper-masculinity as the attitude that "real men don't cry"? Is that your position?

As far as the writings of St. Francis of Assisi goes, no, I have not read any of them. I have read some of St. Bernard's, and they are often strange, to put it mildly.

With regards to masculinity, I am pleased to see that we both agree that such a thing exists. Presumably you also think that men ought to be masculine. Now,  I have read your December 2008 thread on the subject (as found here: http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/inde...642.0.html ). In that thread, in fact in its first post, you write: "I say that all spirituality is, by nature, feminine." Herein lies the problem. If men are supposed to be masculine, how can they also be obliged to be feminine? After all, any good spirituality is meant to permeate our lives, and so men would be under a natural and cultural obligation to be masculine but under a divine and religious obligation to be feminine.  But you may not agree that men are supposed masculine, or that perhaps they must eventually be rid of it. In which case I would raise the question of whether or not grace, in this case, is not destroying nature (i.e. the masculine) rather than building upon it. Of course, that would only hold if masculinity were in some sense natural and not cultural or unnatural. In any case, I look forward to your response.


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Messages In This Thread
Male Spirituality - by SCG - 06-04-2012, 01:11 AM
Re: Male Spirituality - by Crusader_Philly - 06-04-2012, 03:07 AM
Re: Male Spirituality - by TraditionalistThomas - 06-04-2012, 03:12 AM
Re: Male Spirituality - by CollegeCatholic - 06-04-2012, 03:30 AM
Re: Male Spirituality - by Sondaar - 06-04-2012, 06:26 AM
Re: Male Spirituality - by Cetil - 06-04-2012, 08:41 AM
Re: Male Spirituality - by SCG - 06-04-2012, 10:22 AM
Re: Male Spirituality - by SCG - 06-04-2012, 10:28 AM
Re: Male Spirituality - by SCG - 06-04-2012, 10:45 AM
Re: Male Spirituality - by Scriptorium - 06-04-2012, 01:31 PM
Re: Male Spirituality - by SCG - 06-04-2012, 02:04 PM
Re: Male Spirituality - by Scriptorium - 06-04-2012, 02:28 PM
Re: Male Spirituality - by Vetus Ordo - 06-04-2012, 02:35 PM
Re: Male Spirituality - by SCG - 06-04-2012, 02:40 PM
Re: Male Spirituality - by SCG - 06-04-2012, 02:43 PM
Re: Male Spirituality - by Richard C - 06-04-2012, 02:50 PM
Re: Male Spirituality - by Scriptorium - 06-04-2012, 02:52 PM
Re: Male Spirituality - by SCG - 06-04-2012, 03:16 PM
Re: Male Spirituality - by SCG - 06-04-2012, 03:18 PM
Re: Male Spirituality - by rbjmartin - 06-04-2012, 04:12 PM
Re: Male Spirituality - by Scriptorium - 06-04-2012, 04:18 PM
Re: Male Spirituality - by SCG - 06-04-2012, 05:18 PM
Re: Male Spirituality - by Anastasia - 06-04-2012, 06:21 PM
Re: Male Spirituality - by rbjmartin - 06-04-2012, 06:31 PM
Re: Male Spirituality - by Anastasia - 06-04-2012, 06:40 PM
Re: Male Spirituality - by Richard C - 06-04-2012, 09:51 PM
Re: Male Spirituality - by INPEFESS - 06-04-2012, 10:53 PM
Re: Male Spirituality - by SCG - 06-05-2012, 09:43 AM
Re: Male Spirituality - by Lycorth - 06-05-2012, 10:07 AM
Re: Male Spirituality - by SCG - 06-05-2012, 12:38 PM
Re: Male Spirituality - by SCG - 06-05-2012, 01:03 PM
Re: Male Spirituality - by Graham - 06-05-2012, 01:11 PM
Re: Male Spirituality - by SCG - 06-05-2012, 01:37 PM
Re: Male Spirituality - by Scriptorium - 06-05-2012, 02:38 PM
Re: Male Spirituality - by JayneK - 06-05-2012, 07:28 PM
Re: Male Spirituality - by SCG - 06-06-2012, 12:35 AM
Re: Male Spirituality - by Lycorth - 06-06-2012, 12:54 AM
Re: Male Spirituality - by SCG - 06-06-2012, 12:58 AM
Re: Male Spirituality - by wallflower - 06-06-2012, 01:22 AM
Re: Male Spirituality - by Scriptorium - 06-06-2012, 09:03 AM
Re: Male Spirituality - by Aegis - 06-06-2012, 04:58 PM
Re: Male Spirituality - by Vetus Ordo - 06-06-2012, 06:12 PM
Re: Male Spirituality - by SCG - 06-06-2012, 09:35 PM
Re: Male Spirituality - by Aegis - 06-06-2012, 10:27 PM
Re: Male Spirituality - by SCG - 06-06-2012, 11:46 PM
Re: Male Spirituality - by charlesh - 06-07-2012, 12:06 AM
Re: Male Spirituality - by SCG - 06-07-2012, 12:14 AM
Re: Male Spirituality - by The Dying Flutchman - 06-07-2012, 12:21 AM
Re: Male Spirituality - by The Dying Flutchman - 06-07-2012, 12:23 AM
Re: Male Spirituality - by The Dying Flutchman - 06-07-2012, 12:24 AM
Re: Male Spirituality - by Scriptorium - 06-07-2012, 09:00 AM
Re: Male Spirituality - by charlesh - 06-08-2012, 11:26 PM
Re: Male Spirituality - by Scriptorium - 06-09-2012, 10:58 AM
Re: Male Spirituality - by SCG - 06-09-2012, 11:25 AM
Re: Male Spirituality - by Vetus Ordo - 06-09-2012, 11:43 AM
Re: Male Spirituality - by SCG - 06-09-2012, 11:50 AM
Re: Male Spirituality - by SCG - 06-09-2012, 01:33 PM
Re: Male Spirituality - by Aegis - 06-10-2012, 12:04 PM
Re: Male Spirituality - by Allan - 06-10-2012, 12:24 PM
Re: Male Spirituality - by Scriptorium - 08-07-2012, 04:30 PM
Re: Male Spirituality - by SCG - 08-07-2012, 04:41 PM
Re: Male Spirituality - by Scriptorium - 08-07-2012, 05:39 PM
Re: Male Spirituality - by Cesar_Augustus - 08-11-2012, 09:08 PM



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