Offertory dropped, what gives?
#51
I add for good measure:

Apologia Pro Josef Ratzinger, by Michael Davies

http://www.christianorder.com/features/f...bonus.html
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#52
(06-10-2012, 10:32 AM)Resurrexi Wrote: During the first several centuries (if not the first millennium) the only prayer before the pre-Preface dialogue was the Secret (which, of course, is variable). The offertory prayers of the traditional Roman Rite--the "Suscipe, sancte Pater," "Offerimus tibi," and "Suscipe, Sancta Trinitas," all date from the Middle Ages. The other Western rites, such as the Dominican and Sarum, all have different offertory prayers.

For example, the Dominican rite, which St. Thomas Aquinas presumably would have used, has no specific prayer like ours for offering the Host and the Chalice. It only has this one prayer, which corresponds to but is very different from our own "Suscipe, Sancta Trinitas":

"Suscipe, sancta Trinitas, hanc oblationem, quam tibi offero in memoriam passionis Domini nostri Iesu Christi: et presta, ut in conspectu tuo tibi placens ascendat, et meam, et omnium fidelium salutem operetur aeternam."--"Receive, holy Trinity, this sacrifice which I offer you in memory of the passion of our Lord Jesus Christ, and grant that, pleasing to you, it may ascend in your sight, and that it may be conduce to my eternal salvation and that of all the faithful."

(Aside from the Canon) the "Suscipe, sancte Pater," "Offerimus tibi," and "Suscipe, Sancta Trinitas" are my three favorite prayers in the (traditional) Roman Mass. I'm just pointing out that those prayers were not always present and were not always the same. Changing them, however imprudent a decision (and I feel it was incredibly imprudent), does not substantially alter the Mass.

Hmm...I posed this question because i am reading Dom Prosper Gueranger's The Holy Mass and he say the offertory comes from the 8th century. Being the 700's it's been around quite awhile.
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#53
(06-09-2012, 08:15 PM)JayneK Wrote:
(06-09-2012, 08:10 PM)JMartyr Wrote: Pope Benedict speaks of the dangers of relativism and then has Assisi. I am seeing a pattern.

His Assisi meeting was meant as an antidote to the earlier ones (which he opposed at the time).  He was trying to retain the good elements of inter-religious cooperation without the indifferentism and blasphemy.  I am not sure he succeeded, but it was a reasonable goal.

I disagree wholeheartedly . Saying "practice your own religion for the service of peace" (paraphrase) is not what  would call "an antidote" but rather "more poison". At least JPII dared to say in his (first?) Assisi meeting that it was his conviction that only in Christ there was real peace. Benedict didn't go near statements of that kind but rather promoted more indifference by saying that they (catholics and non-catholics) were all “being together on a journey toward truth"; could a Catholic pope, who is supposed to profess that Christ is the Truth and that the Catholic Church is the True Faith, say such things?.

I hope that rumors are correct and that Benedict XVI is rectifying, but I doubt that he was the "defender of orthodoxy" that many people make him out to be.
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