Hay Fever: Natural Treatments
#11
(06-11-2012, 09:10 PM)Rosarium Wrote: Why would I make a grave correction so publicly about a spiritual danger if I were not serious?

"Neti", by definition and nature, is part of Shatkarma, ritual cleansing of a pagan religious family. The "pot" and the term are directly from a pagan rite, and it just happens to actually nasally irrigate.

And as I wrote if you wish to do that, you should use a proper medical device for it. They exist you know. There is no reason to use elements of paganism just because it has a side effect you desire.

There is nothing spiritually wrong with nasal irrigation, but neti is way more than that. Read up on it and you will see. I am warning you of the danger, one you may not have known. Now you know.

Thanks for the heads-up. Certainly such things are so divorced from yogic ritual and belief that I found it laughable. Even the use of the word "neti" pot is one of common parlance, and not a reference to obscure yogic belief and practice for most people. In the past you've been overly sensitive about these things (my opinion, of course), and I find it unwarranted. You discussed the yin-yang symbol in martial arts, for instance, and completely ignored it's value beyond taoist belief. But most of all, the simple fact that it is a pot, salt, and water says that this is benign. If the instruction book says to chant mantras while doing it, okay, I'll concede we have problems. But what person with half an intellect would think that that was part of a nasal cleaning program. Let common sense rule. And stop being afraid of something because it has pagan origins (which, who knows, maybe they absconded from non-pagans). You remove the religious part if need be, and you're fine. It isn't like there is some secret masonic hand gesture code built into the neti pot, and the pouring of water in your nose is a secret binding pact with Satan. Just absurd. Who would even know of the origins of this thing unless someone went on Wikipedia searching it out. I recommend the neti pot, or any other method of nasal irrigation. I have used it for roughly seven years, and my sinuses are fine. (I was originally inspired because I recalled how clear my sinuses were after going swimming at the beach.) I used to get allergies every morning, and that went on for years. Now I may get them one day a year, maybe twice, and are quite mild. The method is simple, and since it is in the shower (if you're smart), the clean-up is easy. Furthermore, it is only hard at the beginning, because you've got loads of junk in there. Now my nose is always clear. Even when I get a cold, my nose never stuffs up completely. So I agree, exercise due caution, but don't reject something simply because it has some connection to an undesirable thing, or give silly advice like you need a "proper medical device". (We're not excising tumors here, just cleaning our sinuses.) As though home remedies, or traditional practices don't have validity, especially when a large number of medical practitioners already acknowledge the truth of the matter by promoting the practice, or coming out with their own sprays. We can probably find paganism in almost everything we do, since paganism forms about 95% of all of our backgrounds. More nuance is needed.
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#12
(06-12-2012, 09:04 AM)Scriptorium Wrote: Certainly such things are so divorced from yogic ritual and belief that I found it laughable.
* Same design
* Same name
* Same use
* Same source of information

It is not "divorced". It is from

Quote: Even the use of the word "neti" pot is one of common parlance,
Many words are commonly used, and this is never used to sanctify them if their use is not holy as well. The meaning of "neti" has remained substantially the same, yes, commonly used, but same meaning.

Quote:and not a reference to obscure yogic belief and practice for most people.
It is not obscure even if it is to you.

Quote: In the past you've been overly sensitive about these things (my opinion, of course),
This is now, not the past.

I do not remember any of your prior posts or other interactions so I cannot comment on this.

Quote: and I find it unwarranted.
Why?

Quote:You discussed the yin-yang symbol in martial arts, for instance, and completely ignored it's value beyond taoist belief.
What does that have to do with this?

Ignorance of "foreigners" adopting symbols, practices, and words from cultures and religions they do not understand is a major cause of the unwitting adoption of paganism.

Quote:But most of all, the simple fact that it is a pot, salt, and water says that this is benign.
The matter is only one element. I never objected to (spiritually) nasal irrigation. So, why so strongly defend the use of an awkward pot and a foreign word you do not understand especially since those unnecessary elements are in fact pagan in origin.

Quote: If the instruction book says to chant mantras while doing it, okay, I'll concede we have problems. But what person with half an intellect would think that that was part of a nasal cleaning program.
I am not objecting to nasal irrigation, but essentially what you say is a problem. The use of the word and paraphernalia of "neti" are the problems because they are not part of the nasal irrigation program.

Quote: Let common sense rule.
"Common sense" is half an intellect. Let truth rule.

Quote:And stop being afraid of something because it has pagan origins
I am not afraid of it.

Quote:You remove the religious part if need be, and you're fine. It isn't like there is some secret masonic hand gesture code built into the neti pot, and the pouring of water in your nose is a secret binding pact with Satan. Just absurd.
Ridiculing my advice is not fruitful.

Quote:Who would even know of the origins of this thing unless someone went on Wikipedia searching it out.
Because I have studied Indic religions and practices, including their introduction to the USA (in particular).

Quote: I recommend the neti pot, or any other method of nasal irrigation.
The ends justify the means?

Quote:I have used it for roughly seven years, and my sinuses are fine.
So, there is no chance you are defending this because you are uncomfortable with being wrong for so long? Most people would resist correction of things they have done for a while because it is a basic psychological tendency to think one is right.

Since you used illogical defenses, and you are still defending non-essential elements of nasal irrigation, my statements still stand.

Quote:The method is simple, and since it is in the shower (if you're smart),
You can attack my intellect all you want, but what is the purpose of that?

Quote: the clean-up is easy.
I do not recommend you method. The water used should be sterile otherwise it can lead to rare but fatal health conditions. That even made the news.

Quote:Furthermore, it is only hard at the beginning, because you've got loads of junk in there. Now my nose is always clear. Even when I get a cold, my nose never stuffs up completely. So I agree, exercise due caution,
My nose (sinuses, etc) are always clear and so is my conscious.

Quote:but don't reject something simply because it has some connection to an undesirable thing, or give silly advice like you need a "proper medical device".
On the contrary, reject something "simply" because is has essential elements of something evil.

By "proper medical device" I was being practical. I do not know what they would be called, but they are sold in most pharmacy sections of stores. They are specifically for nasal irrigation. They are plastic with a nozzle, of some sort, and they look very functional. Instead of using a "pot" from a pagan ritual of cleaning, I think it would be better to use that. Plus, it is probably cheaper and less likely to be broken.

Quote:We can probably find paganism in almost everything we do, since paganism forms about 95% of all of our backgrounds. More nuance is needed.
Nuance, yes. Like, essentially being the same practice for the same purpose with the same materials.
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#13
(06-12-2012, 06:52 PM)Rosarium Wrote: * Same design
* Same name
* Same use
* Same source of information

...


Nuance, yes. Like, essentially being the same practice for the same purpose with the same materials.

My criticism is of you taking something which has become common place through simple human commerce, and narrowing it back down to its origins attempting to limit it to just that for the sake of your argument. In that you commit the fallacy of guilt by association. I judge a thing on its own merits and condition. What you fail to acknowledge is that the use can be totally non-religious, that the object in itself is total non-religious, that salt and water as such are non-religious. So in order for there to be some religious significance to the activity or the objects, one needs to seeks that out and impart that meaning. It isn't like the object is a chalice with holy pictures inscribed on the side. The pot is a nondescript porcelain pot shaped like any other pot. And further you asked for advice. I offered my experience. Take it or leave it. I presented the neti pot to you because that is what I call the thing, as do so many other people (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1/181-3773076-0514468?url=search-alias%3Dhpc&field-keywords=neti+pot). Furthermore, as a basic distinction, I disagree with what seems to be your view, that people fall into paganism, or that even current pagan medical practices can't be used. (I wonder if you object to acupuncture too.) I can take the gifts and wisdom that a culture has developed, sift it through the Catholic filter, and use what is good about it. I mean out of all charity that you are much too sensitive about this. I am well versed in Indian culture, having been a former Buddhist, and I see absolutely no danger to the soul in someone using a nondescript neti pot for nasal irrigation. I really don't care that they call it that either. I see "neti pot" as most people do, a common proper name for a nasal irrigation device. No need for further comment. But if one of you in FE land feels compelled to become Hindu because of the little pot, the name "neti pot," or using it to clean your sinuses, then please stop use, and please know that I do not wish you to endanger your soul by using it.
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#14
Sea Salt. Eat that and you will improve.
Oh my Jesus, I surrender myself to you. Take care of everything.--Fr Dolindo Ruotolo

Persevere..Eucharist, Holy Rosary, Brown Scapular, Confession. You will win.
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#15
(06-12-2012, 07:54 PM)Scriptorium Wrote: My criticism is of you taking something which has become common place through simple human commerce, and narrowing it back down to its origins attempting to limit it to just that for the sake of your argument.
And my warning is that it is not so far removed as you think. This is not a matter of something which happened to be used by pagans, and has found a modern general audience, but something which is still intrinsically a part of a pagan system which is widely practiced and elements of which are thrust into the West and praised by the ungodly.

Neti is, in matter, a pot for nasal irrigation, however, we have stuff for that and it is better and focused on the purpose.

Quote: In that you commit the fallacy of guilt by association.
Your arguments are one big confirmation bias.

However, I do not intend to debate it more, as it would only give you more chance to defend it and that is harmful for you. My words are now directed at those thinking to try something. Nasal irrigation has its fans, and it seems to be effective for some uses, and one can get equipment to do it at pharmacies all over. There is no reason to use the popular borrowing from Hindu practices.

Quote: I judge a thing on its own merits and condition.
Except what I wrote. You focused on me, rather than what I wrote.

Quote: What you fail to acknowledge is that the use can be totally non-religious, that the object in itself is total non-religious, that salt and water as such are non-religious
What you fail to acknowledge is that the terminology and equipment from the religious are being used in full for no reason.

Quote:So in order for there to be some religious significance to the activity or the objects, one needs to seeks that out and impart that meaning.
You have defended it and are committing yourself to it.

Quote:The pot is a nondescript porcelain pot shaped like any other pot.
If it is so uninteresting, why is it so important to you? You could use another device for the same purpose without any loss in function.

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#16
(06-12-2012, 07:59 PM)Jacafamala Wrote: Sea Salt. Eat that and you will improve.

Interesting.

I just got back from the store and I grabbed some plain crackers which happen to have sea salt on them. I just wanted something bland to eat. I will read up on sea salt. I never thought about it in detail before.
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#17
Neti pots are bad news, best leave it to the profesh

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Wellness/fa...d=15170230

The Louisiana Department of Health and Hospitals has issued a warning about improper Neti pot use, which has been linked to two deadly infections.

A 51-year-old woman from DeSoto Parish and a 20-year-old man from St. Bernard Parish, a suburb of New Orleans, died after using Neti pots containing tap water to flush their sinuses. Both became infected with Naegleria fowleri, a parasite known as the brain-eating amoeba.

"If you are irrigating, flushing or rinsing your sinuses, for example, by using a Neti pot, use distilled, sterile or previously boiled water to make up the irrigation solution," Louisiana State epidemiologist Dr. Raoult Ratard said in a statement. "Tap water is safe for drinking but not for irrigating your nose."
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#18
(06-12-2012, 09:02 PM)Spooky Wrote: Neti pots are bad news, best leave it to the profesh

...

Roughly 30 people die a year from dog bites in America. And yet we still own dogs. Life is full of risks.



As for a reply to Rosarium, I don't take the neti pot seriously, but your quibbling about it, and your scrupulosity concerning it. Ultimately your argument boils down to using the word "neti", which triggered a whole association. The slow creeping hand of paganism apparently is getting mainstream doctors too:

Mayo Clinic.
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/neti-pot/AN01755

WebMD
http://www.webmd.com/allergies/sinus-pai.../neti-pots

I'll leave it at that. Take my recommendation or leave it.
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#19
(06-12-2012, 09:37 PM)Scriptorium Wrote: Roughly 30 people die a year from dog bites in America. And yet we still own dogs. Life is full of risks.
You defend it against clear spiritual danger and then justify the risk of misusing nasal irrigation with unclean water.

Quote:As for a reply to Rosarium, I don't take the neti pot seriously, but your quibbling about it, and your scrupulosity concerning it. Ultimately your argument boils down to using the word "neti", which triggered a whole association. The slow creeping hand of paganism apparently is getting mainstream doctors too:
It is also the design of the item. Nothing we would use for hygiene is designed like that. So, the term and the design, and the origins and purpose of the term and design, are not essential to nasal irrigation, yet, they are something you embrace anyway.

Quote:I'll leave it at that. Take my recommendation or leave it.
You have a very strong loyalty to something which you claim is completely innocent. If it were innocent, what is the source of this undue attachment?

EDIT: That is something to consider, and to see if you will "leave it at that".
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#20
I hate, hate, HATE when I get water up my nose, I dislike swimming for this very reason.

Dogs can be scary when they're aggressive; but I've never heard of dog-induced brain-eating amoeba.

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