Homosexuality
#21
(06-23-2012, 10:36 AM)Rosarium Wrote:
(06-22-2012, 10:25 PM)salus Wrote: Why did God allow 2 men or 2 woman to be attracted to each other. Why must they be alone for the rest of their lives,someone asked me this what is your opinion?

Homosexuality is not mutual like you make it sound. It is merely a disorder of the flesh, like any other. For reasons which may vary (brain chemistry, hormones, etc), the natural desire to procreate is directed towards something inappropriate and because of the disorder in our flesh, that urge can be chosen over reason.

It is a simple thing, not the political quasi religious cult it is now.

I would think it would be better to ask why people can be allergic to common foods like nuts or why people grow up speaking French. It is just one of those products of a fallen world which is unfortunate, yet, still only temporal. It passes like everything in this world.

The desire to have sex with a member of one's own sex may be a misdirected desire to procreate, but the desire of same sex companionship is of an entirely different nature.  I think there are two separate forces at work within what we today call homosexuality.
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#22
(06-23-2012, 11:28 AM)Melkite Wrote: The desire to have sex with a member of one's own sex may be a misdirected desire to procreate, but the desire of same sex companionship is of an entirely different nature.  I think there are two separate forces at work within what we today call homosexuality.

I think that companionship urge is the same basic human instinct to form relationships with the base goal of procreation, even though as rational beings we are usually able to go past that urge for chaste friendships.

I do not think homosexuals have different fundamental desires than heterosexuals.
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#23
I would say that the overall homosexual disorder manifests itself physically (in the desire to sexually interact with members of one's own gender) and sometimes also emotionally (in the desire to romantically interact with members of one's own gender). Both are a result of the homosexual disorder.
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#24
(06-23-2012, 11:46 AM)Rosarium Wrote: I think that companionship urge is the same basic human instinct to form relationships with the base goal of procreation, even though as rational beings we are usually able to go past that urge for chaste friendships.

I do not think homosexuals have different fundamental desires than heterosexuals.

I disagree.  I think in most homosexuals the desire for sexual interaction can be differentiated from a desire for a permanent best friend.  I think the latter even in most homosexuals is inherently non-sexual, but inherently same-sex ordered.

Or are you suggesting that we can reduce all desire for companionship to a base desire to procreate, and that because of our ability to reason, we are able to separate the communitive goal from the procreative?  If that's the case, I disagree even more strongly.  Such a description ultimately robs humanity of its soul.
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#25
(06-23-2012, 12:05 PM)Melkite Wrote: I disagree.  I think in most homosexuals the desire for sexual interaction can be differentiated from a desire for a permanent best friend.  I think the latter even in most homosexuals is inherently non-sexual, but inherently same-sex ordered.
It is normal for heterosexual men to have very close friendships with one or very few other men. Perhaps you are referencing that common social satisfaction. In which case, it is shared by heterosexuals in the same way with only the complication of the homosexual disorder. That perhaps would complicate a normal man to man friendship I suppose if one of the men had that disorder, but still, the social aspect would possibly be the same.

Quote:Or are you suggesting that we can reduce all desire for companionship to a base desire to procreate, and that because of our ability to reason, we are able to separate the communitive goal from the procreative?  If that's the case, I disagree even more strongly.  Such a description ultimately robs humanity of its soul.
Can you make a description which does not rob humanity of its flesh?

I think for better or for worse that biology has explained the base nature of the human body quite well. Why humans kiss and have certain social tendencies are often rooted in the general urge to stay alive on the individual and genetic level. Even normal man to man interactions are rooted in the flesh of the human and can be seen as expressing many base traits.

The body and soul make up the human. They are both part of what it means to be human. The effects of original sin pit the flesh against the spirit, but it is still fundamentally good (just weakened and misguided).
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#26
(06-22-2012, 10:25 PM)salus Wrote: Why did God allow 2 men or 2 woman to be attracted to each other. Why must they be alone for the rest of their lives,someone asked me this what is your opinion?

The devil provides all kind of temptations.  This is one of them.
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#27
Can two homosexual men be friends without sex and if yes why would they want to marry then, just be friends, also it goes back to why does God allow some people to reach the point of despair and attempt suicide and why does God watch and not miraculously interfere and provide food before its too late to a child in starving Africa.



Didn't St. Teresa once say that the way God treats his friends its no surprise few are his friend's.


It doesn't surprise me that when people experience some trauma they walk away from him, yet others are drawn to him by this, i guess us finite creatures will NEVER fully understand God.
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#28
(06-23-2012, 10:23 AM)cgraye Wrote:
(06-23-2012, 12:59 AM)Crusading Philologist Wrote: I don't know if God really determined the effects of original sin. I think the idea is more that original sin tarnished the image of God in man. The effects of original sin are just the natural consequences of sinning, especially when you remember that evil is privative. Thinking of original sin on this more ontological level avoids overly anthropomorphic conceptions of God, I think, and it also perhaps makes the doctrine easier to understand.

"Natural" is nothing more than a term for a rule which God consistently applies.  Every consequence is something designed by God, from the result of original sin down to the laws of motion.

I'm not entirely sure. If God just is Being, Goodness, Truth, Beauty, and so on, then only these things can come from God. Something like sin, which has no being of its own but is merely a privation of the good, cannot really come from God. This is because sin ultimately has no reality before God, and so its only effect is to nudge us toward nonbeing or the "region of dissimilarity," as St. Augustine put it. So, if sin is just pulling away from God and moving toward nothingness, then I don't think we really have to say that He determines its effects. Sin just is what it is to be the opposite of God, so I guess in some sense the effects of sin are determined by God's essence, but I'm not sure if that means that we can say that he actually determines the effects of sin.
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#29
(06-23-2012, 12:05 PM)Melkite Wrote:
(06-23-2012, 11:46 AM)Rosarium Wrote: I think that companionship urge is the same basic human instinct to form relationships with the base goal of procreation, even though as rational beings we are usually able to go past that urge for chaste friendships.

I do not think homosexuals have different fundamental desires than heterosexuals.

I disagree.  I think in most homosexuals the desire for sexual interaction can be differentiated from a desire for a permanent best friend.  I think the latter even in most homosexuals is inherently non-sexual, but inherently same-sex ordered.

Or are you suggesting that we can reduce all desire for companionship to a base desire to procreate, and that because of our ability to reason, we are able to separate the communitive goal from the procreative?  If that's the case, I disagree even more strongly.  Such a description ultimately robs humanity of its soul.

I think that one can suggest that, despite our good intentions, close and intimate friendships with members of the sex which we find attractive is a near occasion of sin.  It would be strange to be so close to someone who is of the gender that you find romantically and sexually stimulating and to not have either person, at least in some way, become curious about a deeper and more fulfilling relationship between the two.

Romance and sex are too deeply ingrained within our human nature.
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#30
(06-22-2012, 10:25 PM)salus Wrote: Why did God allow 2 men or 2 woman to be attracted to each other. Why must they be alone for the rest of their lives,someone asked me this what is your opinion?

Because God allows evil to exist. This is a non-issue.

Besides, homosexuality is getting old. Who cares anyway? It's time to move on to bestiality and how "Christ-centered" their relationships can be.
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