St. Thomas and Sola Scriptura
#1
I was reading the Summa Theologiae tonight, and I ran across the following quotation:

"For such things as spring from God's will, and beyond the creature's due, can be made known to us only through being revealed in the Sacred Scripture, in which the Divine Will is made known to us."

http://www.newadvent.org/summa/4001.htm

Would anyone care to clarify the distinction between the point of view he's advocating and Sola Scriptura?
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#2
(06-25-2012, 02:50 AM)Resurrexi Wrote: I was reading the Summa Theologiae tonight, and I ran across the following quotation:

"For such things as spring from God's will, and beyond the creature's due, can be made known to us only through being revealed in the Sacred Scripture, in which the Divine Will is made known to us."

http://www.newadvent.org/summa/4001.htm

Would anyone care to clarify the distinction between the point of view he's advocating and Sola Scriptura?

Good question!

Note the use of the passive tense: "can be made known to us . . ." He isn't saying that we know these truths by our own interpretations; rather, he is saying that the truths are made known to us. By whom? by another authority, namely, the Church, who then infallibly reveals them to us. The wording is very important: He says that the truth is made known to us through being revealed in Scripture; he doesn't say it is revealed to us (privately) by God through Scripture, which is what sola scriptura proposes.

This is the distinction I used in discussing this issue with Vetus Ordo: ‘The supreme authority used by the magisterium of the Church (guided by the Holy Ghost) in knowing the truth is the bible; the supreme authority for everyone else in knowing this truth is the Church's magisterium.’ (See here.)

In other words, the Church looks to the bible, since its interpretation is guaranteed to be infallible; we look to the Church’s interpretation of the bible to know this truth, since our interpretations are not guaranteed to be infallible. Hence, the bible is the means by which truth is infallibly made known to the guided Church; the Church, however, is the means by which this truth is made known to all who are not infallibly guided.
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#3
You seem to be misinterpreting my question.

According to Pastor aeternus, which is following the Council of Trent, Scripture and Tradition are two coequal fonts of divine revelation. According to the Church, God's will is known through Scripture and Tradition, which are interpreted by the Church's magisterium.

However, St. Thomas says, ""For such things as spring from God's will, and beyond the creature's due, can be made known to us only through being revealed in the Sacred Scripture, in which the Divine Will is made known to us."
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#4
INPEFESS explains it very clearly.  The Deposit of Faith consists the Holy Scriptures, Sacred Tradition and the Magisterium (teaching authority of the Church).  In ACTS 8 (Apostle Phili and the Eunuch) we are given the lesson about reading and understanding the Scriptures and how and why we need to be shown what it means: 

"Acts 8:30 et seq.  And Philip running thither, heard him reading the prophet Isaias. And he said: Thinkest thou that thou understandest what thou readest?  Who said: And how can I, unless some man shew me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him. And the place of the scripture which he was reading was this: He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb without voice before his shearer, so openeth he not his mouth.  In humility his judgment was taken away. His generation who shall declare, for his life shall be taken from the earth?  And the eunuch answering Philip, said: I beseech thee, of whom doth the prophet speak this? of himself, or of some other man?  Then Philip, opening his mouth, and beginning at this scripture, preached unto him Jesus."

The Protestant doctrine of Sola Scriptura merely states that this is the onlyrule of faith that is needed for salvation, nothing else.  No caveat against self-interpretation and where it might lead to error in understanding and evbentually to one's destruction.  (See St. Peter's Epistle on this).
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#5
(06-25-2012, 05:08 AM)Resurrexi Wrote: You seem to be misinterpreting my question.

According to Pastor aeternus, which is following the Council of Trent, Scripture and Tradition are two coequal fonts of divine revelation. According to the Church, God's will is known through Scripture and Tradition, which are interpreted by the Church's magisterium.

However, St. Thomas says, ""For such things as spring from God's will, and beyond the creature's due, can be made known to us only through being revealed in the Sacred Scripture, in which the Divine Will is made known to us."

I offer my apologies; I am sorry for that misinterpretation of your question.

Scripture itself explicitly points to tradition as a font of revelation by which truth may be made known, so, as I said to Vetus Ordo in the thread to which I linked, the Church refers to Scripture, and Scripture refers to a source outside of itself (i.e. tradition).
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#6
Scripture does not point to tradition as another source of dogma. All the traditions that the Apostles urged to be kept (2 Thess. 2:14) are nothing else than the Apostolic teaching that was later written down and perpetuated to the end of time in Scripture. Irenaeus plainly states it: "The apostles at that time first preached the Gospel but later by the will of God, they delivered it to us in the Scriptures, that it might be the foundation and pillar of our faith." (Against Heresies 3,1) There's no other source out there. And the fact is, not even Rome can really point out what dogmas are contained in Tradition today that must be believed. It's just something that is made up as time goes along. They can always point to Tradition for justification of their new dogmas and if there are voices against them in the historical record, they can always dismiss them as "non-infallible." It's a sure method for endless spiritual tyranny.

St. Thomas is just building upon the ancient practice of the Church that considered Scripture as the only or perhaps the final authority to decide matters of faith. The Church Fathers did the same thing in their writings. The principle of sola scriptura was not devised in the 16th century, no matter what common apologetics like to tell you.
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#7
(06-25-2012, 11:32 AM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: Scripture does not point to tradition as another source of dogma. All the traditions that the Apostles urged to be kept (2 Thess. 2:14) are nothing else than the Apostolic teaching that was later written down and perpetuated to the end of time in Scripture. Irenaeus plainly states it: "The apostles at that time first preached the Gospel but later by the will of God, they delivered it to us in the Scriptures, that it might be the foundation and pillar of our faith." (Against Heresies 3,1) There's no other source out there. And the fact is, not even Rome can really point out what dogmas are contained in Tradition today that must be believed. It's just something that is made up as time goes along. They can always point to Tradition for justification of their new dogmas and if there are voices against them in the historical record, they can always dismiss them as "non-infallible." It's a sure method for endless spiritual tyranny.
That is a gross misrepresentation of the Church and the guidance of the Holy Spirit of this Church established by God through Jesus Christ and entrusted to the Apostles and those who succeeded them.
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#8
(06-25-2012, 11:36 AM)Rosarium Wrote:
(06-25-2012, 11:32 AM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: Scripture does not point to tradition as another source of dogma. All the traditions that the Apostles urged to be kept (2 Thess. 2:14) are nothing else than the Apostolic teaching that was later written down and perpetuated to the end of time in Scripture. Irenaeus plainly states it: "The apostles at that time first preached the Gospel but later by the will of God, they delivered it to us in the Scriptures, that it might be the foundation and pillar of our faith." (Against Heresies 3,1) There's no other source out there. And the fact is, not even Rome can really point out what dogmas are contained in Tradition today that must be believed. It's just something that is made up as time goes along. They can always point to Tradition for justification of their new dogmas and if there are voices against them in the historical record, they can always dismiss them as "non-infallible." It's a sure method for endless spiritual tyranny.
That is a gross misrepresentation of the Church and the guidance of the Holy Spirit of this Church established by God through Jesus Christ and entrusted to the Apostles and those who succeeded them.

Of course it is.

I don't really "understand" it.
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#9
Vetus, by saying that the Church is engaging in spiritual tyranny you are violating the forum rules regarding non-trads participating here. It's gravely insulting to us. I suggest you avoid such statements in the future. And if you're so insistent on Sola Scriptura you're going to have to explain how the Chair of Moses doesn't violate that. Last I checked it's not once mentioned in any of the Old Testament, yet Our Lord's statement that the pharisees derive their authority from it implies that it was an authoritative part of Temple theology.
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#10
(06-25-2012, 12:17 PM)GloriaPatri Wrote: Vetus, by saying that the Church is engaging in spiritual tyranny you are violating the forum rules regarding non-trads participating here. It's gravely insulting to us. I suggest you avoid such statements in the future. And if you're so insistent on Sola Scriptura you're going to have to explain how the Chair of Moses doesn't violate that. Last I checked it's not once mentioned in any of the Old Testament, yet Our Lord's statement that the pharisees derive their authority from it implies that it was an authoritative part of Temple theology.

Did those sitting in the chair of Moses enjoy infallibility in matters of faith and morals? No. Did those sitting in the chair of Moses have access to sources of dogma apart from the Scriptures? No. In fact, those who enslaved the people with their traditions, like the Pharisees, were condemned by Christ as making void the word of God.
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