Depression Meds or Vitamins?
#11
(06-30-2012, 10:06 PM)HailGilbert Wrote: When I said I didn't believe that, I was referring to this statement:

"Meds are basically useless in treating depression except in extreme circumstances, like mental hospital patients, and most of them are possessed anyway. Depression comes from a form of diabolical influence and oppression or obsession. One needs to root out all their vices for true happiness."

Well either you believe depression is a material problem or a spiritual problem, which is it? Depression is a spiritual problem which affects the material, depression is an act of the will, it's caused by vice or diabolical influence. Even being partly brain dead one can still practice virtue if they are able to communicate. Depression is a spiritual disorder, not a material problem as such, although this disorder in act can cause disorder in the material, which is what is trying to be diagnosed instead of the spiritual. Fr. Ripper explains this in other words.  

(06-30-2012, 10:06 PM)HailGilbert Wrote: I was also referring to this statement:

"Bi-polarism is basically a made-up disease to diagnose with drugs when people of certain personalities give way to sloth or immoderation in dwelling on the pain of a particular thing happening to them."

How can you disagree with this? Read what traditional moral theologians say about depression.

(06-30-2012, 10:06 PM)HailGilbert Wrote: I also include the following:

"Autism is borne out of mineral and vitamin deficiency, same thing with eczema and other allergies."

The evidence is there, you can read about it, Autism is caused by vitamin and mineral deficiency at early stages of growth in the womb as well as the first years of adolescence. Different groups's diets around the world has been studied with regards to their vitamin and mineral intake, those who got closest to the amount of all 90 essential vitamins and minerals had the lowest rate of birth defects and diseases. That is scientific fact, you should listen to Dr. Joel Wallach.

(06-30-2012, 10:06 PM)HailGilbert Wrote: And the other main mental illness I inherited - OCPD - was not mentioned.

OCPD sounds like a modern made-up disease which actually has to do with immoderation of appetite and emotional response. You have four temperaments as well, don't forget that some people are more inclined to act a certain way than others. OCD sounds extremely similar to ADHD and OCPD, which I would say if you're having trouble concentrating or you're concentrating too much on one thing, obsessing, that is a spiritual issue, but not being able to pay attention could be fatigue based on lack of essential vitamins and minerals and or the vice of sloth. These matters, especially with the influences of modern psychology, have to be looked at in detail and understood by their proper definitions and places in regards to philosophy, moral theology, and modern science. Modern science takes it upon itself to disregard moral theology, demonic influence and philosophy, these things can't be ignored when trying to diagnose someone's problem. Priests have to do this all the time.

(06-30-2012, 10:06 PM)HailGilbert Wrote: Genetically inherited mental illnesses like OCPD and Asperger's cured by only what you talked about? Forgive me, but that sounds too much like the propaganda put forth by the Scientologist front group called the Citizen's Commission on Human Rights (CCHR).

And if it isn't so, it sounds too much like to make me feel safe. When I read what you wrote, my defenses went up right away.

If you think you need to take psychotropic drugs to help with that I'm not going to stop you, but I'm saying deep down they're not the answer, they're just a crutch to make you feel a certain way and to cover up the symptoms of the pangs of conscience or diabolical oppression/obsession/possession. You are free to think they're genetic only in the sense that they're caused by a deficiency, that makes philosophical sense, but Dr. Joel Wallach's research show that these things are preventable completely at birth and adolescence by proper nutritional supplementation. Some diseases are curable by getting all 90 essential vitamins and minerals, not all, some are irreversible, but the majority are curable. You just have to do the research on this stuff.

I'm not sure why you think it's propaganda, homeopathic doctors prove what I say to be true by clinical studies with empirical evidence. If you trust the mainstream medical industry I don't know what to say to you, it's run by globalist bankers who own pharmaceutical companies. I don't even know what on earth you're talking about with the CCHR, why don't you just research what I'm saying, especially Dr. Joel Wallachs work.

Feel safe? Why the emotional response? It's not about feelings, it's about fact and scientific evidence as well as leading a good spiritual life. Use the crutch of OCPD if you wan't to justify taking pills all the time, or you can strive to be more like Christ in all you do.
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#12
Medical science can't be separated from philosophy and theology; there is a hierarchy of science. If depression is not spiritual, and it is material, then you are lacking the proper nutrients and need to get supplementation. What are you doing by taking synthesized pharmaceutical pills? Supplementation, just under an artificial form, which may work to a certain degree but it unnatural, you should always seek natural remedies first. If it is both spiritual and physical, then do both. It's not that hard when you actually think about it.

But I do know one thing, we have way too many people on drugs they don't need to be on.


And what's up with the cussing? That's not necessary. What I'm saying is true, you guys just aren't doing the research, it's that simple.
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#13
Fish oil or flax oil pills are very good for mild relief for depression. A couple of will improve both mood and mental sharpness.

Quite helpful for anyone, depressed or not, for a mood and mental boost.
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#14
I've read a lot of bullshit on FE over the years, but when Trads start dispensing medical advice, my bullshit detector goes on overload.  Why are trads so afraid of modern medicine?  Maybe we should read tea leaves and animal entrails to diagnose illness. 
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#15
I'll keep my responses brief, since it is past midnight in my part of the USA and I must get to bed. I may give a fuller response later on, but I won't guarantee it.

"Well, either you believe depression is a material problem or a spiritual problem, which is it?"

Depression is a material problem, caused in part by a lack of sufficient levels of the chemical serotonin in the brain.

Regarding bi-polar disorder:

"How can you disagree with this? Read what traditional moral theologians say about depression."

I can disagree with this because there was no proof given that it was what you claimed it was, only the assertion that it was. Talking about bi-polar disorder and depression are two different topics.

And who are these "traditional moral theologians" you speak off regarding the earlier topic? What are their names, where did they graduate from, what are their major works? Give me the details, please, or I have to doubt you on your claim.

"The evidence is there, you can read about it, Autism is caused by vitamin and mineral deficiency at early stages of growth in the womb as well as the first years of adolescence."

Again, it doesn't sound logical. Is there any other proof other than the say-so of this Dr. Wallach to back up this claim? I need more than one source of information, and my time to search for such is limited. Links, please.

"OCPD sounds like a modern made-up disease which actually has to do with immoderation of appetite and emotional response."

It isn't. It is a genetically inherited mental illness that affects over 3 million Americans. Alas, I have it, my father has it, his mother (RIP) had it and her father (RIP) before her had it.

Made-up disease my eyebrows!

Here is a link from the Aurora Surgery Center in Colorado:

http://www.aurorasurgerycenter.com/apps/...kiid=24697

An excellent web log by one who had a boyfriend with severe OCPD called "OCPD -- Scattered Thoughts From The Front Lines":

http://perfectlyawfulusa.blogspot.fr/

Finally, here is the main English-speaking web board for people and their families who suffer from OCPD and it's aspects:

http://ocpd.freeforums.org/

"If you trust the mainstream medical industry I don't know what to say to you, it's run by globalist bankers who own pharmaceutical companies."

I neither said nor implied that I did. You read that into what I said. Let me be plain. I don't trust THEM and I don't trust you OR this Dr. Wallach you trust. Neither side gets the benefit of the doubt here. I'll repeat that...neither side gets the benefit of the doubt.

"Feel safe? Why the emotional response? It's not about feelings, it's about fact and scientific evidence as well as leading a good spiritual life. Use the crutch of OCPD if you want to justify taking pills all the time, or you can strive to be more like Christ in all you do."

OCPD as a crutch? Then you don't know me at all, sir. How in Heaven's name did you get the idea regarding me having OCPD as an excuse to take pills? That is presumption right there, sir, if not the appearance of acting like a Pharisee. Why would I want to take pills at all in the first place? Surely I would have had some simple reason to take them if I wanted to rather than this.

And to briefly conclude, the Scientology front group I mentioned earlier -- the CCHR -- uses similar things you said regarding psychology and vitamins in order to lure them into supporting their Satanic cult. That's why I said "my defenses went up right away".

Enough for now. Good night to you all.
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#16
(06-30-2012, 11:30 PM)DrBombay Wrote: I've read a lot of bulls**t on FE over the years, but when Trads start dispensing medical advice, my bulls**t detector goes on overload.  Why are Trads so afraid of modern medicine?  Maybe we should read tea leaves and animal entrails to diagnose illness. 

I'm sorry, Bombay, but that was just silly and painting with too broad a brushstroke.

There are legitimate fears and verifiable stories of modern medicine doing a lot of damage out there. Problem is too many go to the opposite extreme in order to protect themselves from these abuses and goofiness. Trads are no different in this area of life.
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#17
I find that vitamin D and high doses of EPA and DHA help my mood so much. Exercise helps too, as does regularly attending Mass. I have a history of depression, anxiety, and OCD. I'm doing very well at the moment, despite going through a particularly stressful season of life.
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#18
(06-30-2012, 09:16 PM)Atomagenesis Wrote: Bi-polarism is basically a made up disease to diagnose with drugs when people of certain personalities give way to sloth or immoderation in dwelling on the pain of a particular thing happening to them

Horseshit.  And dangerous horseshit at that.

When you wake up at 2 a.m. with an incredible urge to clean the bathroom and to sing an aria while doing it, you will have a much better understanding of this illness.  In the meantime, you are actually putting people at risk of death by dissuading them from the treatment they need.  Shame on you.  Really.  Just stop.
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#19
(06-30-2012, 08:37 PM)salus Wrote: If you are suffering from Depression why do some people try to get you to take tons of vitamins instead of the meds, if your brain isn't functioning well like any other part of your body why not take meds to help you.

Cause and effect, perhaps.

A medical condition should be evaluated for its cause. What causes a certain symptom? Then, that cause should be addressed. The symptom can perhaps be treated to aid in that, but the fundamental necessity is to address the cause of the problem.

In some cases, this is impossible. For example, a chronic incurable disease. In that case, managing symptoms is the best one can do. However, for depression, the giving of a pill which messes with brain chemicals is perhaps highly irresponsible. Reducing a psychological state to "chemical imbalance" and make cute little cartoons is not the solution to treating a complex reaction. How do these chemicals work? Do they cover up the cause of the depression in the first place causing a bigger issue? If they are something one cannot stop to take, how can we be sure that they are not sold because they are highly profitable, easy to give away, and will make one worse if one stops taking them? Follow the money...if an industry could develop a substance which causes dependence, what would stop them from trying to get as money people hooked as possible?

Perhaps depression is not a "brain not functioning well", but a brain which is functioning well. Depression is a normal reaction to many things, including poor diet or other environmental factors, personal psychological issues, spiritual battles, etc.

The use of modern medicine does not preclude abuse. Historically, people have taken the easy and profitable way out in the medicinal practices. A lot of science is not an immunity against simple human laziness, corruption, and greed.

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#20
(06-30-2012, 09:16 PM)Atomagenesis Wrote: Autism is borne out of mineral and vitamin deficiency, same thing with eczema and other allergies. You have to realize that all these types of diseases have sky-rocketed in the last 50 years. It's because the food we eat is garbage, it has contaminants, just like our water supply, not to mention all the dirty vaccines we're given as children. People who eat right have reversed everything from cancer, bi polarism, arthritis, alzheimers, joint injury, practically everything. You can thank the Rockefellers, J.P, Morgan and other banksters for depriving us of this knowledge because it means they can dumb down the populace and have more control over people who are drugged up zombies in the state of mortal sin. Pharmacology isn't the only branch of medicine, there is homeopathy, veterinary, chinese herbology, the list goes on and on. Something are curable by pharmacology, mainly by surgery and anti-biotics, besides that... psychotropic and pharmacologic synthesized pills are detrimental to the health in 90% of cases if you count everything that's out there.

Humans are not blank slates. We have preexisting states and genetics which can result in disorders which are part of our flesh. Be careful about imagining everything to have a single cause.

The types of diseases may not have skyrocketed. We just may diagnose and address them more.

Autism is not borne out of mineral and vitamin deficiency. Allergies are a complex subject. In the last 50 years, infant mortality has dropped (at least, when allowed to be born) and surviving childhood is much more certain. Before, being under 10 was a gamble. The explanation for the widespread issues we see now but not in the past can easily be explained by changes in society and in demographics. Without modern medicine, diseases would claim the lives of many, many people.

Being healthy in the flesh is good for many reasons, but it is not a cure-all. It would eliminate health problems widely though and show the cases which are not caused by lifestyle. Do not forget cause and effect. Nutrition would only address problems caused by improper nutrition. It would have to be caused by it in order to benefit from that approach.
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