Head of CDF on record: Four SSPX bishops should resign and close their seminary
#21
(07-03-2012, 01:24 PM)per_passionem_eius Wrote: Of course.  I don't know many 60+ trads.  But mine wasn't a rhetorical question at all.  Maybe it's considered common knowledge that this is not news.  I'm still new to this, though.   

Gotcha.  

Are you familiar with the 2008-2009 "scandal?"  Basically, Bishop Williamson was a dumb dumb, gave his opinion on the Holocaust to a TV reporter.  +Williamson said "don't broadcast this, it'll get me in trouble."  Reporter broadcast it.  (This was what, late 2008 when the interview was recorded?  And then broadcast in 2009?)

Then in 2009 the Pope lifted the excommunications of the 4 bishops of the SSPX.  

And in 2009, +Mueller shot his mouth off in this interview with Die Zeit, because the Jews got their panties in a wad because +Williamson gave an opinion they didn't like.  Which of course makes him basically Hitler reincarnate.  Which means the media in Germany also got their panties in a wad, because the Germans have been beaten morally ever since World War II (which is a pity, although the younger generations don't give a damn, in my experience.  And by younger I mean 40s and below).  

The other interesting part about this 2009 ordinations business (Regensburg is the diocese where the SSPX seminary is, and where the ordinations for that year would have taken place) is that the Vatican seemingly had no issue with the ordinations, but +Mueller was creating a big show about things because of his opposition to the SSPX (saying that the four bishops should resign and disappear and they should shutter the seminary is pretty big, if you ask me), and then the Vatican was "OK" with SSPX transferring the ordinations to Menzingen.  
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#22
Yes, I remember the lifting of the excommunications, and the revelation of Bishop Williamson's interview that quickly followed.  Maybe this Bishop Mueller is more concerned about saving souls than preventing panties from getting twisted.  I don't know.  I'm not terribly uncomfortable not knowing, either.
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#23
(07-03-2012, 01:20 PM)CollegeCatholic Wrote:
(07-03-2012, 01:19 PM)GloriaPatri Wrote:
(07-03-2012, 01:12 PM)FaithByProxy Wrote:
(07-03-2012, 01:05 PM)GloriaPatri Wrote: To be fair to +Müeller this interview dates from the beginning ot 2009. Three and a half years is enough time for one to change their view on the SSPX bishops. Just saying.

I eagerly await public statements on his newfound love for the SSPX then.

I'm not asserting that he's done a 180, but it is possible that he does not hold such harsh views of the four bishops.

Since three years ago?  C'mon.  Stop being ridiculous.

He isn't some naive little boy.  He's a 60-something year old bishop. 

These are grown men and adults.  Stop coddling them for the things they do.

I don't know ... has anything happened in the last three years that might lead a Catholic to think differently about the SSPX?

Can't think of anything?
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#24
(07-03-2012, 02:31 PM)newyorkcatholic Wrote:
(07-03-2012, 01:20 PM)CollegeCatholic Wrote:
(07-03-2012, 01:19 PM)GloriaPatri Wrote:
(07-03-2012, 01:12 PM)FaithByProxy Wrote:
(07-03-2012, 01:05 PM)GloriaPatri Wrote: To be fair to +Müeller this interview dates from the beginning ot 2009. Three and a half years is enough time for one to change their view on the SSPX bishops. Just saying.

I eagerly await public statements on his newfound love for the SSPX then.

I'm not asserting that he's done a 180, but it is possible that he does not hold such harsh views of the four bishops.

Since three years ago?  C'mon.  Stop being ridiculous.

He isn't some naive little boy.  He's a 60-something year old bishop. 

These are grown men and adults.  Stop coddling them for the things they do.

I don't know ... has anything happened in the last three years that might lead a Catholic to think differently about the SSPX?

Can't think of anything?
Define Catholic?
Or at least your description of "Catholic" in the above context..

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#25
(07-03-2012, 02:33 PM)GottmitunsAlex Wrote:
(07-03-2012, 02:31 PM)newyorkcatholic Wrote:
(07-03-2012, 01:20 PM)CollegeCatholic Wrote:
(07-03-2012, 01:19 PM)GloriaPatri Wrote:
(07-03-2012, 01:12 PM)FaithByProxy Wrote:
(07-03-2012, 01:05 PM)GloriaPatri Wrote: To be fair to +Müeller this interview dates from the beginning ot 2009. Three and a half years is enough time for one to change their view on the SSPX bishops. Just saying.

I eagerly await public statements on his newfound love for the SSPX then.

I'm not asserting that he's done a 180, but it is possible that he does not hold such harsh views of the four bishops.

Since three years ago?  C'mon.  Stop being ridiculous.

He isn't some naive little boy.  He's a 60-something year old bishop. 

These are grown men and adults.  Stop coddling them for the things they do.

I don't know ... has anything happened in the last three years that might lead a Catholic to think differently about the SSPX?

Can't think of anything?
Define Catholic?
Or at least your description of "Catholic" in the above context..

Any Catholic. SSPX, liberal, neo-cath, Eastern, non-SSPX trad, sede.  They all have reason to re-consider their views of the SSPX given talks with Rome. 
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#26
I think it is a bit unfair to use the picture of Bishop Müller in a shell suit as a portrait. Whatever you think of him, he is decidedly not a bishop who dresses as a civilian. He decided to participate in an art project that photographed people once in their "uniform" and once in civilian clothes. In the accompanying interview he explicitly said that he thinks it is important to wear clerical garb and that he only wears the shell suit in the evening when he does not expect any visitors. There's nothing wrong with that, IMO, and it's unfair to use the one picture without the one that normally goes with it.
Here are several photos from the art project.
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#27
(07-03-2012, 01:19 PM)CollegeCatholic Wrote:
(07-03-2012, 01:14 PM)per_passionem_eius Wrote: Why didn't you post the date in the OP?

It was within the past five years.  At that point in time, +Mueller had been bishop of Regensburg for 7 years, which is where the SSPX seminary is.

What would have changed over the last 3 years to make him change his mind so suddenly and drastically?  

I don't know of many 60+ year old folks that change their opinions on things.  Especially things which they so clearly feel strongly on.

It is possible though, we cannot deny that especially with Pope Benedict's desire to reconcile the SSPX. He wouldn't contradict himself and choose someone who'd prevent that, least I hope he wouldn't. . .
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#28
(07-03-2012, 05:48 PM)TS Aquinas Wrote: It is possible though, we cannot deny that especially with Pope Benedict's desire to reconcile the SSPX. He wouldn't contradict himself and choose someone who'd prevent that, least I hope he wouldn't. . .

I hope he wouldn't either...but more than being the pope "of Christian unity" I think he is really more concerned with keeping vatican ii alive and well, and figuring out how to bring as many people into the structure of the Church without having them actually change their evil ways.  He can't bring in the sspx because it would show how retarded the church has been for the last 50 years.  Maybe he realizes that he can't solve this problem without budging on vii and undoing what he has spent his life doing.  I dunno...
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#29
(07-03-2012, 01:27 PM)GloriaPatri Wrote: CollegeCatholic, I'm not "coddling" anyone. I hate the post-conciliar church just as much as the next traditionalist. But just because a bishop is in his 60s doesnt mean his views on certain issues can't change over a period of several years. And I would appreciate if you wouldn't use a condescending tone with me. Thanks.

I am sure he would stop using the tone if you would stop being a naive optimist.
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#30
ggreg, I have never been an optimist, at least when it comes to human actions. I merely pointed out that this interview happened 3 1/2 years ago, and that it was possible +Müeller's views have changed. Not that it was likely, only that it was possible. Regardless, I was more concerned that a date was not given with the interview. Some lurkers might think that Bp. Müeller gave this interview recently, which is what I was primarily worried about.
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