Head of CDF on record: Four SSPX bishops should resign and close their seminary
#41
(07-04-2012, 05:34 PM)CollegeCatholic Wrote:
(07-04-2012, 05:17 PM)lumine Wrote: What do you mean that the Vatican had no issues with the ordinations?  According to the Vatican any SSPX clerics shouldn't be administering sacraments...of course it's an issue with the Vatican...

This is what I was referring to when I said the Vatican had no issues with the ordinations.

http://rorate-coeli.blogspot.com/2009/03...nique.html
Quote:Statement
Communiqué of the Superior General of the Priestly Fraternity of St. Pius X



At the request of the Holy See, we decided to move the ordinations of subdeacon who were scheduled Zaitzkofen, Germany, this Saturday, March 28. They will be the seminary of Ecône, Switzerland, on the same date.

This decision is intended as a conciliatory gesture after the lifting of unjust convictions hanging over the bishops of the Society and the violent reactions that followed. In fact, we regret that some bishops have the opportunity to lead in an open revolt against the Pope. We are particularly disgusted by the attitude of the German episcopate that has not stopped us from manifesting its hostility stripped of charity and for his continual trial, treating us "hatefully, without misgiving or restraint," as the rightly found the Holy Father in his letter of March 10.

We know our situation, under the law of the Church, is imperfect. This is not new and is intimately linked to the crisis in the Church and the state resulting need. Therefore, it is useless to invoke the right to try to stifle the life of our priestly society. Other ordinations will take place as planned and he never has been matter of deleting them. Indeed, the gracious act of the Holy See can not be interpreted as an attempt to suffocate the Society of St. Pius X.

We stick to the timetable specified by the decree of January 21 which provides for "maintenance required" about the Second Vatican Council and its novelties. We reiterate the Holy Father assured of our prayer that these doctrinal discussions spring up full light of the whole truth.

                                                                                                      Menzingen, March 24, 2009

         + Bernard Fellay

Oh boy, here we go.....the subdiaconate is not a sacrament as holy orders is, most likely it is a sacramental.  There are laymen currently taking the role of subdeacons in the TLM.
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#42
The SSPX has had no papal authority to administer any sacraments since Pope Paul VI.
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#43
(07-04-2012, 05:55 PM)lumine Wrote: The SSPX has had no papal authority to administer any sacraments since Pope Paul VI.

....because.....say it....."there's a crisis in the Church." 
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#44
(07-04-2012, 07:00 PM)Gerard Wrote:
(07-04-2012, 05:55 PM)lumine Wrote: The SSPX has had no papal authority to administer any sacraments since Pope Paul VI.

....because.....say it....."there's a crisis in the Church." 

There has always been a crisis in the Church, since the beginning....
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#45
It says traditional Catholic forum at the top, right?
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#46
(07-04-2012, 07:40 PM)Crusader_Philly Wrote: It says traditional Catholic forum at the top, right?


and traditional Catholics, of which I am one, believe that the Pope is the head of the Church on earth, not any other bishop.......
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#47
(07-04-2012, 07:52 PM)lumine Wrote:
(07-04-2012, 07:40 PM)Crusader_Philly Wrote: It says traditional Catholic forum at the top, right?


and traditional Catholics, of which I am one, believe that the Pope is the head of the Church on earth, not any other bishop.......

I am not aware of anyone arguing the contrary.
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#48
Anyone deny the Pope is the head of the Church?

I didn't.
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#49
(07-04-2012, 07:21 PM)lumine Wrote:
(07-04-2012, 07:00 PM)Gerard Wrote:
(07-04-2012, 05:55 PM)lumine Wrote: The SSPX has had no papal authority to administer any sacraments since Pope Paul VI.

....because.....say it....."there's a crisis in the Church." 

There has always been a crisis in the Church, since the beginning....

The late Pope John Paul II didn't get your memo. He insisted to the Italian journalist Vittorio Messori back in 2003 that there was no crisis in the Church and everything was fine.
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#50
(07-04-2012, 07:21 PM)lumine Wrote: There has always been a crisis in the Church, since the beginning....

That's the cop-out answer, an attempt to obscure the current crisis in the Church by implying that it's actually a state of "normalcy."

There have always been problems in the Church, there is not always a crisis. 

The Church has not always been in a state of "auto-demolition" as Paul VI put it,  nor "Silent Apostasy" as John Paul II put it or as then-Card. Ratzinger put it in several ways as the "ecclesial crisis" or "as boat that is about to sink."
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