Head of CDF on record: Four SSPX bishops should resign and close their seminary
#71
(07-08-2012, 05:52 PM)TS Aquinas Wrote:
(07-08-2012, 04:48 PM)lumine Wrote:
(07-07-2012, 10:17 AM)Gerard Wrote:
(07-06-2012, 12:25 PM)lumine Wrote:
(07-05-2012, 09:01 PM)Gerard Wrote: Why did you "papacy" and not the name of a particular Pope?

For a few reasons.  There has been more than one man as pope who has dealt with Archbishop Le Febvre and the SSPX.  While the papacy is an office held by one man at a time, there are certain things that apply to the office of pope, no matte who it is.

The plural of "Pope" isn't "papacy" it's "Popes."  There is obviously a difference between holding the office iin regard and holding the occupant of the office in regard. Read Fr. Ralph Wiltgen's "Rhine flows into the Tiber" and all of the quotes from LeFebvre show him defending the "papacy" at the council and warning that collegiality is a veiled attack against the "papacy." 

And here's one man who was Pope who had nothing but praise for LeFebvre.  [Image: Lefebvre-and-Pope-Pius-XII.jpg]

Gerard, I am referring to the office of pope, the papacy, no matter which man is pope at the time.  The SSPX talks out of both sides of it's mouth, claiming allegiance to the pope and yet directly disobeying whoever the pope may be at the time. It can't be both ways and it looks like the SSPX is realizing the consequences of their actions.....

"All the intermediaries through which faith comes to us are above suspicion. We believe the prophets and apostles because the Lord has been their witness by performing miracles, as Mark (16:20) says: '…and confirming the word with signs that followed.' And we believe the successors of the apostles and prophets only in so far as they tell us those things which the apostles and prophets have left in their writings."

St. Thomas Aquinas, Truth, Vol. 2, Questions X-XX, Question 14, Article 10, Reply, Answer 11


Do we have to list all the things recent Popes have accepted in Vatican 2 that departs from what the apostles and prophets have left in their writings? Our obedience to the Pope is limited and is measured with obedience to faith and tradition.
THIS
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#72
(07-08-2012, 05:37 PM)lumine Wrote: Do people really believe that any pope is going to agree with the SSPX about Vatican II and that the Novus Ordo is going to be done away with? Really?

Why not?  When's the last time you saw an Arian?
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#73
(07-08-2012, 06:03 PM)JuniorCouncilor Wrote:
(07-08-2012, 05:37 PM)lumine Wrote: Do people really believe that any pope is going to agree with the SSPX about Vatican II and that the Novus Ordo is going to be done away with? Really?

Why not?  When's the last time you saw an Arian?

One of the greatest temptations of our time is the belief that the change back to tradition has to happen in our lifetime. 
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#74
(07-08-2012, 06:31 PM)per_passionem_eius Wrote: One of the greatest temptations of our time is the belief that the change back to tradition has to happen in our lifetime. 

Temptation?  I thought it was the theological virtue of hope?
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#75
(07-12-2012, 05:45 AM)ggreg Wrote:
(07-08-2012, 06:31 PM)per_passionem_eius Wrote: One of the greatest temptations of our time is the belief that the change back to tradition has to happen in our lifetime. 

Temptation?  I thought it was the theological virtue of hope?

We can hope it might happen soon.  But why does it *have* to happen soon?  that's not hope, that sounds like a form of presumption.
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