What was the point of Quo Primum if a later Pope can just abolish it?
#41
(07-18-2012, 08:42 PM)JayneK Wrote: Here is the Missale Carthussiense http://web.archive.org/web/2007092703181...siense.pdf

The Offertory as we know it is missing, although there is a trace of it.  It is not heterdox, but then, I don't think the NO is either.
 
(I think this responds to Crusader Philly's post, as well.)

Jayne, what liturgy is that?

http://psallitesapienter.blogspot.com.au...-mass.html

 
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#42
(07-18-2012, 09:22 PM)lumine Wrote:
(07-17-2012, 03:47 PM)Stubborn Wrote: The sound quality is not the greatest but, as usual, Fr. Wathen explains and goes into detail as regards Quo Primum and the new mass.

http://www.fatherwathen.com/558.html

This explains alot about your perspective.  I am really not sure how you can call yourself Catholic, at least a practicing one....

Thanks for showing the difference in beliefs between Fr. Wathen, who remained a traditional Catholic, and one who has accepted the NO as being Catholic.

Can you see it?
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#43
(07-19-2012, 05:28 AM)John Lane Wrote:
(07-18-2012, 08:42 PM)JayneK Wrote: Here is the Missale Carthussiense http://web.archive.org/web/2007092703181...siense.pdf

The Offertory as we know it is missing, although there is a trace of it.  It is not heterdox, but then, I don't think the NO is either.
 
(I think this responds to Crusader Philly's post, as well.)

Jayne, what liturgy is that?

http://psallitesapienter.blogspot.com.au...-mass.html

I got to it by following links to pre-Tridentine liturgy, so I assumed it was the ancient from of the Carthusian Mass.  After reading that blog, I'm wondering if it is the modern version.  It sounds like they are so close that it doesn't matter.  The point is that its rudimentary version of the Offertory does not explicitly state the propitiatory nature of the Mass which is my main problem with the Novus Ordo.  In spite of this deficiency there is no question it is a Catholic Mass.
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#44
(07-17-2012, 03:47 PM)Stubborn Wrote: The sound quality is not the greatest but, as usual, Fr. Wathen explains and goes into detail as regards Quo Primum and the new mass.

http://www.fatherwathen.com/558.html

To help me plan my time, would you tell me approximately how long this is?  Thank you.  I'll listen to it soon.
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#45
I think it's about 35 minutes - I didn't time it but seems about that long - well worth hearing!
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#46
Thanks again.
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#47
(07-18-2012, 09:25 PM)lumine Wrote: Te Mass of Pope Paul VI is a valid, Catholic Mass.  To think otherwise is basically saying that Paul VI really wasn't a pope, or any of his successors, for that matter.

It might be valid, so long as the priest's intentions are there during Consecration and the proper formula is used. The text of the 1962 missal ensured this much more securely than the 1969 missal, but that's another matter.

Just being valid is not enough. Just achieving the bare minimum is not enough. Being Catholic is not about just skating by.

And - how does questioning the New Mass amount to sedevacantism? It does not, though modernists might want you to believe that in order to quell criticism of a very clearly defective rite.
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#48
(07-19-2012, 11:40 AM)Stubborn Wrote: I think it's about 35 minutes - I didn't time it but seems about that long - well worth hearing!

Yes, it was well worth it.  It's about an hour long.  It's always good to hear a priest speak so carefully and thoughtfully, showing he is aware that his every word matters.
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#49
(07-19-2012, 11:06 AM)JayneK Wrote: I got to it by following links to pre-Tridentine liturgy, so I assumed it was the ancient from of the Carthusian Mass.

No, it's the new liturgy.  Weren't you saying we shouldn't assume?

(07-19-2012, 11:06 AM)JayneK Wrote:   The point is that its rudimentary version of the Offertory does not explicitly state the propitiatory nature of the Mass which is my main problem with the Novus Ordo. 

That's your problem, but it isn't ours.  The Novus Ordo suppressed ALL prayers which clearly referred to the great truth of the sacrifical nature of the Mass.  Have you read Michael Davies book on the New Mass?
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#50
(07-19-2012, 07:19 PM)John Lane Wrote: The Novus Ordo suppressed ALL prayers which clearly referred to the great truth of the sacrifical nature of the Mass.  Have you read Michael Davies book on the New Mass?

Sacrifice is clearly mentioned in the NO.  What is missing is explicit reference to the propitiatory nature of the sacrifice.  I have not read the Michael Davies book yet, but I hope to.  I like his work very much.
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