Hardrock-Mass
#41
(07-17-2012, 04:47 PM)JayneK Wrote: So if we rank all the problems facing the Church today, where would we put a priest doing dumb stuff with liturgy? 

Does it ever occur to anyone here that the Pope has to deal with big picture strategy and cannot pull out his big guns for every individual priest abusing the liturgy?  He has to choose his battles and think about the long term. And I can't think of anyone here who is in a position to judge what it is like to handle responsibility on that scale.

It was a priest doing dumb stuff like this at the mass that made me fall away from the Church for 10 years - to the peril of my immortal soul.

Don't tell me this is not important, and don't tell me I should have been stronger (i.e. don't judge). If the spirit isn't fed the soul will die of starvation.
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#42
(07-17-2012, 08:49 PM)GottmitunsAlex Wrote:
(07-17-2012, 08:48 PM)JayneK Wrote:
(07-17-2012, 07:47 PM)TS Aquinas Wrote:
(07-17-2012, 07:39 PM)JayneK Wrote: I think that sometimes he needs to leave a less than ideal bishop in place because he has not found anyone better to replace him with yet.  We had over 25 years of JPII and the associated trend of bad bishops, bad seminaries and bad priests.  Finding good bishops has got to be challenging.

St. Ambrose was baptized, confirmed, ordained a deacon, a priest, and then a bishop all on the same day. I think the Holy Father, if he had the purest intentions, could pull a relatively same maneuver with pious men wherever they are, from religious orders to simple deacons.

How does he find these pious men?
Evidently not in the NO seminary.

The situation in seminaries seems to be starting to turn around.  At least it is around here and I've heard others say this about their areas.  But a kid in seminary is not likely to be bishop material, even if he is completely orthodox.  The position needs maturity and experience.
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#43
Wait, April 8th was Easter Sunday, wasn't it?

Wow.  Crappy Easter, everybody, crappy Easter!
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#44
(07-17-2012, 08:54 PM)JayneK Wrote:
(07-17-2012, 08:49 PM)GottmitunsAlex Wrote:
(07-17-2012, 08:48 PM)JayneK Wrote:
(07-17-2012, 07:47 PM)TS Aquinas Wrote:
(07-17-2012, 07:39 PM)JayneK Wrote: I think that sometimes he needs to leave a less than ideal bishop in place because he has not found anyone better to replace him with yet.  We had over 25 years of JPII and the associated trend of bad bishops, bad seminaries and bad priests.  Finding good bishops has got to be challenging.

St. Ambrose was baptized, confirmed, ordained a deacon, a priest, and then a bishop all on the same day. I think the Holy Father, if he had the purest intentions, could pull a relatively same maneuver with pious men wherever they are, from religious orders to simple deacons.

How does he find these pious men?
Evidently not in the NO seminary.

The situation in seminaries seems to be starting to turn around.  At least it is around here and I've heard others say this about their areas.  But a kid in seminary is not likely to be bishop material, even if he is completely orthodox.  The position needs maturity and experience.
A 24 year old can be a bishop. We have sen that in the past.  Just in Mexico alone, at the time of the Cristero war, they were consecrating 24 year old priests into Bishops. In the still-current state of emergency of the Church, Fr. Bernard Fellay was consecrated a bishop at age 24.

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#45
(07-17-2012, 08:52 PM)10th_Crusader Wrote:
(07-17-2012, 04:47 PM)JayneK Wrote: So if we rank all the problems facing the Church today, where would we put a priest doing dumb stuff with liturgy? 

Does it ever occur to anyone here that the Pope has to deal with big picture strategy and cannot pull out his big guns for every individual priest abusing the liturgy?  He has to choose his battles and think about the long term. And I can't think of anyone here who is in a position to judge what it is like to handle responsibility on that scale.

It was a priest doing dumb stuff like this at the mass that made me fall away from the Church for 10 years - to the peril of my immortal soul.

Don't tell me this is not important, and don't tell me I should have been stronger (i.e. don't judge). If the spirit isn't fed the soul will die of starvation.

Of course it is important.  So is dealing with dissident theologians.  So is reviving catechesis.  So is taking a stand against secularism.  So is cleaning out abusive priests.  Etc.  

There are major problems in virtually every area of Church life.  He cannot address every problem at once.  He will pour out his life doing this and it will not be finished when he dies. It is easy to sit around our computers and complain, but the man in charge has an overwhelming task and responsibility.
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#46
(07-17-2012, 08:59 PM)GottmitunsAlex Wrote:
(07-17-2012, 08:54 PM)JayneK Wrote:
(07-17-2012, 08:49 PM)GottmitunsAlex Wrote:
(07-17-2012, 08:48 PM)JayneK Wrote:
(07-17-2012, 07:47 PM)TS Aquinas Wrote:
(07-17-2012, 07:39 PM)JayneK Wrote: I think that sometimes he needs to leave a less than ideal bishop in place because he has not found anyone better to replace him with yet.  We had over 25 years of JPII and the associated trend of bad bishops, bad seminaries and bad priests.  Finding good bishops has got to be challenging.

St. Ambrose was baptized, confirmed, ordained a deacon, a priest, and then a bishop all on the same day. I think the Holy Father, if he had the purest intentions, could pull a relatively same maneuver with pious men wherever they are, from religious orders to simple deacons.

How does he find these pious men?
Evidently not in the NO seminary.

The situation in seminaries seems to be starting to turn around.  At least it is around here and I've heard others say this about their areas.  But a kid in seminary is not likely to be bishop material, even if he is completely orthodox.  The position needs maturity and experience.
A 24 year old can be a bishop. We have sen that in the past.  Just in Mexico alone, at the time of the Cristero war, they were consecrating 24 year old priests into Bishops. In the still-current state of emergency of the Church, Fr. Bernard Fellay was consecrated a bishop at age 24.

St. Timothy was a young bishop too, so it is possible. But it is not likely.
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#47
(07-17-2012, 08:48 PM)JayneK Wrote: How does he find these pious men?

I would think a great start would be the FSSP. How about Augustinian Canons? Faithful Dominicans? Brothers in the Franciscans of the Immaculate? Trappists? Individual Diocesan priests like mine who takes it upon themselves to make the TLM readily accessible? Pious men aren't exact inconspicuous if you know where to look and I'm sure Benedict knows of them. The question is, why elect men like Mueller who's orthodoxy is in question from individual theologians, FSSP and SSPX when you have access to a plethora of ready and able traditional and fully orthodox priests, friars, monks, etc...
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#48
(07-17-2012, 08:54 PM)JayneK Wrote: The situation in seminaries seems to be starting to turn around.  At least it is around here and I've heard others say this about their areas.  But a kid in seminary is not likely to be bishop material, even if he is completely orthodox.  The position needs maturity and experience.

Impossible. Whoever thinks NO seminaries are turning around is simply lazy or don't want to see what *continues* to happen in the NO....................do you suppose the NO seminary of the rock star priest started turning around?

Some turn around, hey?


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#49
(07-17-2012, 09:00 PM)JayneK Wrote: Of course it is important.  So is dealing with dissident theologians.  So is reviving catechesis.  So is taking a stand against secularism.  So is cleaning out abusive priests.  Etc.  

There are major problems in virtually every area of Church life.  He cannot address every problem at once.  He will pour out his life doing this and it will not be finished when he dies. It is easy to sit around our computers and complain, but the man in charge has an overwhelming task and responsibility.

I fail to see how the Holy Father really desires this. He just appointed as the Vice President of Ecclesia Dei, the organization supposedly in favor of trads in Rome, a "conservative" who quickly went on record saying that the SSPX needs to convert to Vatican II, and Ecclesia Dei is busy ignoring plenty of appeals from the faithul regarding the TLM in favor of putting novus ordo prefaces, etc., into the TLM. He helped create the problem; while he now has perhaps acknowledged some of the problem, he is far from rejecting its creation and continuance.
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#50
(07-17-2012, 09:15 PM)Stubborn Wrote:
(07-17-2012, 08:54 PM)JayneK Wrote: The situation in seminaries seems to be starting to turn around.  At least it is around here and I've heard others say this about their areas.  But a kid in seminary is not likely to be bishop material, even if he is completely orthodox.  The position needs maturity and experience.

Impossible. Whoever thinks NO seminaries are turning around is simply lazy or don't want to see what *continues* to happen in the NO....................do you suppose the NO seminary of the rock star priest started turning around?

Some turn around, hey?
Click on the link and play the first vid that you see. It has subtitles in English/spanish.
This video has been taken off Vimeo & Dici for some reason.
IT explains with great detail the current situation of the NO seminaries around the world. I should know, I was in the NO seminary for 3 years.
http://bibliaytradicion.wordpress.com/20...-la-fsspx/


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