Healing of Colombian man could pave way for John Paul II canonization
#21
(07-21-2012, 11:19 AM)StrictCatholicGirl Wrote: The process of canonizing has a long tradition of changing. The Devil's Advocate was only around for 300 or so years. The office was invented by a Pope, it can be deleted by a Pope, and it can be brought back again. The "waiting period" has changed too. The number of miracles required has changed. And don't forget that for the first thousand or so years saints were made by public acclaim. I doubt seriously that will ever return.. My only point is that the process has changed and will continue to do so. That being said, I think waiting 50 years after a person's death is a good idea. I think the waiting period is probably most important factor in our day and age for a number of reasons.

What's the diff SCG?

Pope John Paul II is famous for one thing - his anti Catholic public actions...............which obviously puts one on the path to sainthood in the NO. The Devil's Advocate was abolished for a specific reason, namely, because with it, there would never be a NO saint.
By his fruits, we know him.
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#22
If canonisation were merely the Church's declaration that a person is saved then there would be no problem.

The problem, however, is that the late Pope unfortunately performed a number of actions that were scandalous in the sense of causing the Catholic faithful to stumble in their faith. If John Paul II is canonised then the Church will appear to give its approbation to actions such as his participation in a Voodoo ceremony. If he is canonised then the ecclesia docens owes the ecclesia discens a clear explanation of the Church's position on this problematic (to say the least) action of the late Pope.
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#23
(07-21-2012, 02:38 PM)Scotus Wrote: If canonisation were merely the Church's declaration that a person is saved then there would be no problem.

The problem, however, is that the late Pope unfortunately performed a number of actions that were scandalous in the sense of causing the Catholic faithful to stumble in their faith. If John Paul II is canonised then the Church will appear to give its approbation to actions such as his participation in a Voodoo ceremony. If he is canonised then the ecclesia docens owes the ecclesia discens a clear explanation of the Church's position on this problematic (to say the least) action of the late Pope.

The Church, (New Church) certainly does give its approbation to actions such as his participation in a Voodoo ceremony, if it were not the case, certainly there would be no case for making him a saint.

That is why he may end up being a NO saint - after all, that is the faith he promulgated and it is for that faith that he hopes  to be made a saint from- no?

By pre-NO Catholic standards, based on his public actions, there is no question that he would not even be considered a candidate for sainthood.

That's just the way it is.
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#24
Person 1: the Church is the only means of salvation, Jesus Christ is the only name in Heaven that saves. All other beliefs are an abomination and an offense to God, for they are of demons as King David proclaimed. As the extraordinary magisterium proclaimed that Muslims, heretical protesters, and Talmudic Jews are hellbound, we are not to encourage these practices but rather convert them.

Person 2: but how can this be when St. John Paul II prayed with pagans and heretics, kissed and worshipped the Qur'an, proclaimed that Jews do not need to convert and helped dechristianize the Church? If he is a saint, then God was working through him to do these things.

Person 1: ugh...
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#25
Does anyone know if the rite of canonization might be questionable in certain cases?  It would make sense to me that it would be, if it was changed.  I believe it was changed before St. Josemaria Escriva was canonized, and it caused doubt for some.
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#26
Well, if the rules set up by the Church are followed, and the Vicar of Christ proclaims the sainthood of the person,  then you cannon question it.  The saint may get a feast on the calendar for the Universal Church.  It would lead to the person being publicly venerated and whose lives, at least after the conversion, or heroic act, can be looked upon as a model of Christian virtue. 
  In JPII's case, regardless of whether he has obtained the Beatific Vision or not, his public life gives so much proof that there is no way that he could be a credible candidate for Catholic sainthood.  We, of course, pray for the repose of his soul, but his actions have spoken louder than his words, even the words that were true to Catholic teaching.  The scandals cannot be put aside, not to mention his support of VII.

Joe
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#27
Speaking as a former Jehovah's Witness for 25 years, the actions of JPII provided JW's more ammo to use against the Church than they knew what to do with. It was just too easy for us then with things he did to use in converting others....
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#28
(07-21-2012, 05:25 PM)St. Pius of Trent Wrote: Speaking as a former Jehovah's Witness for 25 years, the actions of JPII provided JW's more ammo to use against the Church than they knew what to do with. It was just too easy for us then with things he did to use in converting others....

Exactly.  When people say "Assisi" was scandalous, this is exactly it.  How can you accept Catholicism as the one true Faith if your leader is off galavanting with pagans, heretics, and schismatics?
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#29
To canonize John Paul II would be to canonize Vatican II and all that it has wrought.
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#30
(07-21-2012, 04:52 PM)per_passionem_eius Wrote: Does anyone know if the rite of canonization might be questionable in certain cases?  It would make sense to me that it would be, if it was changed.  I believe it was changed before St. Josemaria Escriva was canonized, and it caused doubt for some.

I don't think I've ever heard of a questionable canonization, least ways not until the NO - now every canonization carries doubt, like everything else of importance in the NO.

Personally, I don't believe NO canonizations are infallible - not one single solitary thing about the NO enjoys Divine protection from error and I can't believe NO saints would be the exception.






 
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