Healing of Colombian man could pave way for John Paul II canonization
#51
(07-23-2012, 05:22 PM)per_passionem_eius Wrote: And the worst chastisement God gives is sending us bad priests.

We've had "bad priests" since the dawn of the Church. But God always provide us with good (and often extraordinary) Priests too.  
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#52
Quote: I believe his papacy was a massive debacle in particular the constant meddling in world politics without first having his own house in order,
The worst debacle was his writings, which were heretical:
Quote: "10: The universality of salvation means that it is granted not only to those who explicitly believe in Christ and have entered the Church. Since salvation is offered to all, it must be made concretely available to all. But it is clear that today, as in the past, many people do not have an opportunity to come to know or accept the gospel revelation or to enter the Church. The social and cultural conditions in which they live do not permit this, and frequently they have been brought up in other religious traditions. For such people salvation in Christ is accessible by virtue of a grace which, while having a mysterious relationship to the Church, does not make them formally part of the Church but enlightens them in a way which is accommodated to their spiritual and material situation. This grace comes from Christ; it is the result of his Sacrifice and is communicated by the Holy Spirit. It enables each person to attain salvation through his or her free cooperation.  For this reason the Council, after affirming the centrality of the Paschal Mystery, went on to declare that "this applies not only to Christians but to all people of good will in whose hearts grace is secretly at work. Since Christ died for everyone, and since the ultimate calling of each of us comes from God and is therefore a universal one, we are obliged to hold that the Holy Spirit offers everyone the possibility of sharing in this Paschal Mystery in a manner known to God."
You need explicit Faith in Jesus to be saved.  I won't even mention the need for baptism.
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#53
Quote: I don't get why Vatican II and the changes are a "chastisement" on the Church.
I understand your point.  Ask the people in Spain currently cooking their shoes if they were being chastised 5 years ago and they will probably tell you no.  And yes, a very bad physical chastisement is going to hit hard, and it already hitting hard, crushing Spain, Greece, Ireland, and now Italy.  It grows daily, and the war hasn't even broken out yet.

But there is also a spiritual chastisement that is for sins before Vat. II.  (Edit:see below)  Many in the Church denied you need Faith in Christ.  Then you had Catholics practicing contraception.  So God says, fine, that's what you want?  You can have it. 

I see a whole process of chastisement, which basically raised up the Trad movement and got some Catholics to wake up.  And it will keep getting cranked up, and coupled with Justice, which we currently see in Europe, and which will hit England once the defaults come, then spread to the USA.  And then a huge war to complete it.
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#54
(07-23-2012, 08:00 PM)James02 Wrote: The Church denied you need Faith in Christ. 

Please don't say things like this. It is inconceivable that the Church, herself, would deny Her own teachings, lest Christ be a liar. Perhaps it could be said that the Modernistic institution that has eclipsed her has denied her teachings, but the Church has not and cannot.
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#55
(07-23-2012, 06:10 PM)Guardian Wrote:
(07-23-2012, 05:22 PM)per_passionem_eius Wrote: And the worst chastisement God gives is sending us bad priests.

We've had "bad priests" since the dawn of the Church. But God always provide us with good (and often extraordinary) Priests too.  

I'm fairly certain that the poster knows this, and I'm fairly certain that St. John Eudes knew it, too. The importance of what he said shouldn't be minimized or trivialized.

I think it can be reasonably inferred from St. John Eudes' statement that it would be an epidemic of evil clergy across the world (or a certain country), not just a bad priest here and there.
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#56
(07-23-2012, 10:28 PM)INPEFESS Wrote:
(07-23-2012, 06:10 PM)Guardian Wrote:
(07-23-2012, 05:22 PM)per_passionem_eius Wrote: And the worst chastisement God gives is sending us bad priests.

We've had "bad priests" since the dawn of the Church. But God always provide us with good (and often extraordinary) Priests too.  

I'm fairly certain that the poster knows this, and I'm fairly certain that St. John Eudes knew it, too. The importance of what he said shouldn't be minimized or trivialized.

I think it can be reasonably inferred from St. John Eudes' statement that it would be an epidemic of evil clergy across the world (or a certain country), not just a bad priest here and there.

Who's minimizing  it? I only pointed out that bad priests are not a new scourge upon the Church.  It's prudent to remember that despite the dark times we live in, God has and will continue to provide good shepards to guide His flock. 
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#57
(07-23-2012, 10:44 PM)Guardian Wrote: Who's minimizing  it? I only pointed out that bad priests are not a new scourge upon the Church.  It's prudent to remember that despite the dark times we live in, God has and will continue to provide good shepards to guide His flock. 

Yes, you pointed that out, and St. John Eudes pointed something out, too, which I brought to your attention.

The logic you are employing is like saying that God poisoning the waters over the earth wouldn't be a big deal, since water has been poisoned before since the beginning of time. You are not getting the point, I'm afraid.
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#58
We are in the Great Apostasy.
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#59
(07-23-2012, 10:47 PM)INPEFESS Wrote:
(07-23-2012, 10:44 PM)Guardian Wrote: Who's minimizing  it? I only pointed out that bad priests are not a new scourge upon the Church.  It's prudent to remember that despite the dark times we live in, God has and will continue to provide good shepards to guide His flock. 

Yes, you pointed that out, and St. John Eudes pointed something out, too, which I brought to your attention.

The logic you are employing is like saying that God poisoning the waters over the earth wouldn't be a big deal, since water has been poisoned before since the beginning of time. You are not getting the point, I'm afraid.

I saw the quote from St. John Eudes earlier, thanks.

My main point is that God chastises and then provides for those who remain faithful.  And its been done throughout history.  You can't seem to get past the chastisement part. 
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#60
(07-23-2012, 11:15 PM)Guardian Wrote: I saw the quote from St. John Eudes earlier, thanks.

My main point is that God chastises and then provides for those who remain faithful.  And its been done throughout history.  You can't seem to get past the chastisement part. 

I was responding to your post, which responded to the point about the punishment of bad priests with the argument that "We've had 'bad priests' since the dawn of the Church."

Sure we have, but that effectively ignores the point: that God will send a whole lot of them our way as a punishment. So saying, "We've had bad priests before" doesn't respond to the point that God will allow the world to become full of them as a punishment. It only reads like: "No biggie. We've had bad ones before, so why is that so bad?"

Arguing that "God will provide" doesn't respond to the point, since no one implied that He wouldn't provide. The only point made was that a plague of bad clergy is the worst kind of plague. No one argued that there haven't been bad priests before; nor did anyone argue that God wouldn't provide. These side points miss the point.
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