Sunday obligation on a Saturday at SSPX?
#21
(07-21-2012, 07:30 PM)Aragon Wrote:
(07-21-2012, 12:51 PM)PeterII Wrote:
(07-21-2012, 11:33 AM)Aragon Wrote:
(07-21-2012, 09:29 AM)PeterII Wrote:
(07-21-2012, 09:12 AM)Aragon Wrote:
(07-21-2012, 08:48 AM)PeterII Wrote:
Aragon Wrote:The 1917 code is no longer in force. If you can make it to the Mass on Saturday evening then you're obligated to go.

No one is obligated by ecclesiastical law in the modern crisis.  There are plenty of justifications not to fulfill the Sunday obligation, particularly when your option is a Novus Ordo mass. 

We're talking about a TLM.

Even then.  Whether it be a clown mass that Rosarium would attend to fulfill the letter of the law, or a diocesan approved TLM, a Traditionalist has no moral obligation to cooperate with conciliarist authorities, which can be subjectively determined.  That dispenses one from ecclesiastical law. 

By "Concilliarist authorities" you mean the Holy Father and bishops with jurisdiction over you, right? We can only disregard a law when it is dangerous to our Faith, unless you can show that a TLM offered by a priest with faculties is endangering your soul then you are duty bound to attend it to fulfil your Sunday obligation.

A priest with faculties offering a TLM has unnecessarily subjected himself to bishops who endanger souls with conciliarist nonsense.  That can be a dangerous influence on one's faith and therefore sufficent reason not to go to mass with them. 

Nonsense. Go to an approved Mass centre and see if it's a dangerous influence on your Faith.

I have.  Too many hoopleheads and legal positivists for my liking.  It's my soul, I have a right to take care of it. 
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#22
One also has a responsibility to avoid scandal, Mass attendance lends implicit support to whoever is offering it.
No Catholic is obligated to commit scandal by attending Masses offered by Novus Ordo heretics, or Ecclesia Dei cowards.
Either you are with Him, or against Him, there's no middle ground in this fight.
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#23
(07-23-2012, 12:24 PM)Dellery Wrote: One also has a responsibility to avoid scandal, Mass attendance lends implicit support to whoever is offering it.
No Catholic is obligated to commit scandal by attending Masses offered by Novus Ordo heretics, or Ecclesia Dei cowards.
Either you are with Him, or against Him, there's no middle ground in this fight.
I read something once about Our Lord saying something about lukewarm people.....
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#24
(07-23-2012, 12:24 PM)Dellery Wrote: One also has a responsibility to avoid scandal, Mass attendance lends implicit support to whoever is offering it.
No Catholic is obligated to commit scandal by attending Masses offered by Novus Ordo heretics, or Ecclesia Dei cowards.
Either you are with Him, or against Him, there's no middle ground in this fight.

Right, because all those that offer the TLM with faculties are cowards. It can't be that they think it's important to remain unity with the wider Church, or that they can do more good inside the regular structures than out? I sympathise a lot with the SSPX, but my priests are far from cowards. In fact they've fought a lot to provide for our community. Because of their canonically regular status they can teach diocesan seminarians how to say the TLM, I could go into a CCD class and give the kids the first dose of real Catholicism they've had in their life, and some priests and servers from the parish could travel to a rural Cathedral to introduce the congregation to the Old Mass.

The SSPX certainly does a great job in keeping the doctrinal issues on the table, but those priests who operate under "Ecclesia Dei" are hardly cowards. In many ways their job is tougher than that of an SSPX priest because they have to answer to a hostile bishop while taking care of their flock.
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#25
(07-23-2012, 12:24 PM)Dellery Wrote: One also has a responsibility to avoid scandal, Mass attendance lends implicit support to whoever is offering it.
No Catholic is obligated to commit scandal by attending Masses offered by Novus Ordo heretics, or Ecclesia Dei cowards.
Either you are with Him, or against Him, there's no middle ground in this fight.

Not to mention this is the heresy of Donatism. It was decided long ago that the validity and efficacy of the sacraments is not dependent on the moral character of the priest. Even if the priest were a criminal his sacraments would be completely valid and licit, and, if he were the only priest around, you would be obliged to attend his Mass to satisfy your obligation. So no, Mass attendance does not necessarily lend implicit support to the behaviour of whoever offers it.
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#26
(07-24-2012, 11:27 AM)Aragon Wrote:
(07-23-2012, 12:24 PM)Dellery Wrote: One also has a responsibility to avoid scandal, Mass attendance lends implicit support to whoever is offering it.
No Catholic is obligated to commit scandal by attending Masses offered by Novus Ordo heretics, or Ecclesia Dei cowards.
Either you are with Him, or against Him, there's no middle ground in this fight.

Right, because all those that offer the TLM with faculties are cowards. It can't be that they think it's important to remain unity with the wider Church, or that they can do more good inside the regular structures than out? I sympathise a lot with the SSPX, but my priests are far from cowards. In fact they've fought a lot to provide for our community. Because of their canonically regular status they can teach diocesan seminarians how to say the TLM, I could go into a CCD class and give the kids the first dose of real Catholicism they've had in their life, and some priests and servers from the parish could travel to a rural Cathedral to introduce the congregation to the Old Mass.

The SSPX certainly does a great job in keeping the doctrinal issues on the table, but those priests who operate under "Ecclesia Dei" are hardly cowards. In many ways their job is tougher than that of an SSPX priest because they have to answer to a hostile bishop while taking care of their flock.

They remain silent while Christ's Church is molested, they are all cowards plain and simple. Moreover, actual accomplices in evil.
This is not Catholicism, the Ecclesia Dei communities don't "resist to the face", at best they murmur behind their superiors back while smiling to their face.
You advocate pure cowardice, thus making yourself an affront to Christian man-hood and duty.
Pathetic.
 
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#27
(07-24-2012, 11:31 AM)Aragon Wrote:
(07-23-2012, 12:24 PM)Dellery Wrote: One also has a responsibility to avoid scandal, Mass attendance lends implicit support to whoever is offering it.
No Catholic is obligated to commit scandal by attending Masses offered by Novus Ordo heretics, or Ecclesia Dei cowards.
Either you are with Him, or against Him, there's no middle ground in this fight.

Not to mention this is the heresy of Donatism. It was decided long ago that the validity and efficacy of the sacraments is not dependent on the moral character of the priest. Even if the priest were a criminal his sacraments would be completely valid and licit, and, if he were the only priest around, you would be obliged to attend his Mass to satisfy your obligation. So no, Mass attendance does not necessarily lend implicit support to the behaviour of whoever offers it.

This is an obvious straw-man, not worth the time for a response.
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#28
(07-20-2012, 08:13 PM)Rosarium Wrote:
(07-20-2012, 08:07 PM)Revixit Wrote: Edit: I checked that and the "American Catholic Church"  didn't exist until 1999 but before that there were the "Old Catholic" churches, quite a few of them, started at different times and for different reasons.  I've run into members of these groups online.

There is the Polish National Catholic Church too. I do not know how orthodox they are in practice now.

For starters they don't believe in Original Sin being passed down... that should tell you something!
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#29
(07-23-2012, 12:24 PM)Dellery Wrote: One also has a responsibility to avoid scandal, Mass attendance lends implicit support to whoever is offering it.
No Catholic is obligated to commit scandal by attending Masses offered by Novus Ordo heretics, or Ecclesia Dei cowards.
Either you are with Him, or against Him, there's no middle ground in this fight.

This is a Sede forum now?
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#30
(07-24-2012, 10:29 PM)gloriamaria Wrote:
(07-23-2012, 12:24 PM)Dellery Wrote: One also has a responsibility to avoid scandal, Mass attendance lends implicit support to whoever is offering it.
No Catholic is obligated to commit scandal by attending Masses offered by Novus Ordo heretics, or Ecclesia Dei cowards.
Either you are with Him, or against Him, there's no middle ground in this fight.

This is a Sede forum now?

I don't see anything about whether or not the See of Peter is vacant here.
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