Living as a traditional Catholic - questions
#1
Hello everyone. I'll preface by saying how much I've learned about my faith due to these forums. I've had an interesting relationship with tradition. I do strongly identify as a traditional Catholic and exclusively attend the Latin Mass. My questions stem more from a content from another forum which I won't name. My fundamental question is about tradition and it's relationship to modernity. On another trad site I was browsing, I came across a lot of anger and what seemed like bitterness from folks when anything modern was addressed.

I guess my question divides up into multiple issues. I have seen some trads berate others who don't find women working as "femitrads" and other put downs. I have seen some trads refer to those who enjoy some rock and pop music as "evil" and some who take very conspiratorial views of the world and other such things like this.

Now I know I'm citing stuff from another forum but for those of you who have been attending traditional chapels for years, would you say that this kind of attitude is pervasive? Or do internet forums tend to bring out more hard line individuals? I hope I'm making sense. On this other forum I have been accused of being a "liberal" and a "modernist" and other things simply for disagreeing with someone's interpretation of the role of women in society, for thinking that modern music can be okay, etc. I can assure anyone that I'm no liberal, so I was just wondering if there are other trads out there who can make peace with some aspects of the modern world.

Thanks!

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#2
By the way, I don't mean this as an attack on those who do have more hard line views. I was more wondering if there is room in the traditionalist movement for a variety of opinions on such issues.
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#3
I find it varies by region.  In GENERAL, the southern trads are more laid back and party more.  However, it seems like the Wisconsin trads like their beer from this forum.

There is an undercurrent in Tradom I have labeled neo-Jansenism.  Small example, in schools run by Trads mathematics is not given much priority.  Point being, there is an over-emphasis on the spiritual side.

To keep yourself sane, concentrate on your state in life.  If you are called to be a married father, then you are called to building community and providing for your family.  So you need a good education, and you need to socialize.  And your kids need to socialize.  And your wife needs friends to help her out and stay sane while raising a pack of kids.

So I like taking my wife out dancing.  I know in some chapels dancing is considered sinful.  In others, the chapel will host a barn dance or something.

Like I said, it varies, but yes you'll run into a neo-jansenist current from time to time.  Just know that it is not a defining characteristic.

Also, there is a generation gap.  Older Trads will have more of a bunker mentality.  That is because when they started this movement (and we are grateful), their goal was to preserve.  The younger generation wants to expand and is more confrontational.  So you'll see a different perspective there.
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#4
Fr. Ripperger answers a lot of these questions in his audio talks on http://www.sensustraditionis.org/

I don't think all pop/rock is evil per se, but most of it is, and actually, those kind of beats cater towards the passions, so it's best to avoid that type of music if at all possible because of its ability to stir up the passions. If the lyrics contain something evil, then one is committing the sin of commission and being accessory to the sin in the lyrics by supporting it and allowing it to enter into their mind, it is a form of corruption and evil and should be avoided for the good of our souls. Some may not agree with this position, but it is the most reasonable position in my view and first hand experience having listened to rock for a long time and having given it up almost exclusively. It does stir the passions.

Regarding women, I'm not really sure what your position is so I can't make a decisive answer. But I think most traditional Catholics positions are that "women are saved through childbearing." And if that is not their vocation, marriage, then they should become consecrated virgins or a religious. Modern woman is an invention of the freemasonic communist ideal to separate the family and gain control over the education of children. I also believe it is better that women do not attend universities and should not be working in the corporate environment and most large businesses. Women should be employed, if they are single, in homesteading type of roles because this is proper to women. Bishop Williamson and many traditional priests speak about this, you could research that issue if you like.

Some trads lack charity in dealing with others, especially on some of the more hard-line forums, they are well intentioned people, but a lot of them seem to think they do not have to be charitable on the internet because it's much easier to correct someone being an arm-chair keyboard warrior than it is face to face, most of these people if you met them in real life would probably be much more reasonable and kind about the issues they discuss, there is something about the indifference of the internet that causes them to act this way, try not to let it get to you.

Pax Christi
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#5
I'd say most are not like that, trad parishes tend to have only a few hard liners. On the Internet, though, they make up a greater proportion of the forums, so seems there are more of them than there are. Just go to your local TLM and see what's there. Hang around after Mass and introduce yourself, see what kind of organizations the parish runs, and so on.
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#6
As far as modern music, some of it is good, a lot of it bad.  Obviously stuff with bad lyrics needs to be avoided.  I also threw out the TV.  I think if you look at it objectively, you have to come to that conclusion.  I don't consider those who watch TV to be modernist, but I think they are in error.

As far as women in society, I don't know your position.  I have no problem with women getting a good education, and working before having kids.  However, once kids come along, then it is evil, unless there is severe economic hardship, to warehouse your kids in strangercare.  Also, Trads recognize that men and women are fundamentally different, which is great, and that feminism is really an attack on femininity.  

Also scripture and the Church are quite clear that a wife must obey her husband, except in the case of sin.  To oppose that is to oppose Tradition.
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#7
(08-08-2012, 06:14 PM)Atomagenesis Wrote: Fr. Ripperger answers a lot of these questions in his audio talks on http://www.sensustraditionis.org/

I don't think all pop/rock is evil per se, but most of it is, and actually, those kind of beats cater towards the passions, so it's best to avoid that type of music if at all possible because of its ability to stir up the passions. If the lyrics contain something evil, then one is committing the sin of commission and being accessory to the sin in the lyrics by supporting it and allowing it to enter into their mind, it is a form of corruption and evil and should be avoided for the good of our souls. Some may not agree with this position, but it is the most reasonable position in my view and first hand experience having listened to rock for a long time and having given it up almost exclusively. It does stir the passions.

Regarding women, I'm not really sure what your position is so I can't make a decisive answer. But I think most traditional Catholics positions are that "women are saved through childbearing." And if that is not their vocation, marriage, then they should become consecrated virgins or a religious. Modern woman is an invention of the freemasonic communist ideal to separate the family and gain control over the education of children. I also believe it is better that women do not attend universities and should not be working in the corporate environment and most large businesses. Women should be employed, if they are single, in homesteading type of roles because this is proper to women. Bishop Williamson and many traditional priests speak about this, you could research that issue if you like.

Some trads lack charity in dealing with others, especially on some of the more hard-line forums, they are well intentioned people, but a lot of them seem to think they do not have to be charitable on the internet because it's much easier to correct someone being an arm-chair keyboard warrior than it is face to face, most of these people if you met them in real life would probably be much more reasonable and kind about the issues they discuss, there is something about the indifference of the internet that causes them to act this way, try not to let it get to you.

Pax Christi

Thank you for the reply. I'll check out the link. Well my musical tastes tend not to be hardrock and I try to avoid profane music as much as I can. I try to listen to stuff that actually has a message (be it politics or whatever, even if I disagree with the message.) I listen to music not to stir passions but to relax and unwind to.  

We'll have agreements and disagreements on the women issue. I'm most certainly not a feminist (I've seen Phyliss Schalfley speak on multiple occasions). I just don't see women in the workplace as an evil, but the role of motherhood must of course, come before all things in the home.

Thanks again!
(08-08-2012, 06:18 PM)Anastasia Wrote: I'd say most are not like that, trad parishes tend to have only a few hard liners. On the Internet, though, they make up a greater proportion of the forums, so seems there are more of them than there are. Just go to your local TLM and see what's there. Hang around after Mass and introduce yourself, see what kind of organizations the parish runs, and so on.

Very good advice. I'm still getting to know folks at my chapel (there's always breakfast afterwards with the Sisters and whichever visiting priest we have on a Sunday - on a side note, we just got word today that we have a permanent priest!) My experience at my own chapel has been wonderful. It's mostly some radical e-trads that have gotten me down.

(08-08-2012, 06:12 PM)James02 Wrote: I find it varies by region.  In GENERAL, the southern trads are more laid back and party more.  However, it seems like the Wisconsin trads like their beer from this forum.

There is an undercurrent in Tradom I have labeled neo-Jansenism.  Small example, in schools run by Trads mathematics is not given much priority.  Point being, there is an over-emphasis on the spiritual side.

To keep yourself sane, concentrate on your state in life.  If you are called to be a married father, then you are called to building community and providing for your family.  So you need a good education, and you need to socialize.  And your kids need to socialize.  And your wife needs friends to help her out and stay sane while raising a pack of kids.

So I like taking my wife out dancing.  I know in some chapels dancing is considered sinful.  In others, the chapel will host a barn dance or something.

Like I said, it varies, but yes you'll run into a neo-jansenist current from time to time.  Just know that it is not a defining characteristic.

Also, there is a generation gap.  Older Trads will have more of a bunker mentality.  That is because when they started this movement (and we are grateful), their goal was to preserve.  The younger generation wants to expand and is more confrontational.  So you'll see a different perspective there.

Thank you for the reply. I agree with a lot of what you have to say. I like your point about the Jansenism thing, I think that was one of my main concerns. My main reason for asking these questions, I think, stems from my discernment of a vocation to the priesthood and I got this awful mental image of me (God willing) ministering to a chapel and having to deal with 50 to 100 people who might consider me sinful for my music or views on non-doctrinal matters! Thanks again for the reply!
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#8
(08-08-2012, 06:20 PM)James02 Wrote: As far as modern music, some of it is good, a lot of it bad.  Obviously stuff with bad lyrics needs to be avoided.  I also threw out the TV.  I think if you look at it objectively, you have to come to that conclusion.  I don't consider those who watch TV to be modernist, but I think they are in error.

As far as women in society, I don't know your position.  I have no problem with women getting a good education, and working before having kids.  However, once kids come along, then it is evil, unless there is severe economic hardship, to warehouse your kids in strangercare.  Also, Trads recognize that men and women are fundamentally different, which is great, and that feminism is really an attack on femininity.  

Also scripture and the Church are quite clear that a wife must obey her husband, except in the case of sin.  To oppose that is to oppose Tradition.

Well, I'll disagree with you on the television issue (then again I don't watch much TV, mostly the news) but we are indeed in agreement on the feminism issue. 150%.

The other issue that had me running scared from this other forum was some of the racial rhetoric. (I know this stuff gets sticky so I want to say I'm not accusing anyone of being a racist.) I'll preface by saying that I'm Latino. However I'm a staunch defender of Western civilization, I love reading Pat Buchanan and I'm a John Bircher. On this other forum though, some of the stuff I was reading when race came up was a little scary. I won't go into details on that because I don't like to be divisive but let's just say it was enough to make me hesitate to visit other traditional chapels.

Thanks again, all of you for your replies.
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#9
Probably CathInfo  :grin:
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#10
(08-08-2012, 06:35 PM)Atomagenesis Wrote: Probably CathInfo  :grin:

Not saying anything  :grin:
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