Contradictions of the modern popes
(08-16-2012, 11:53 AM)TrentCath Wrote: That said, and following Stubborns example, you are right I should try and be more virtuous when dealing with others, especially those that vex and irritate me, so thank you for the correction  :)

O.K. You're welcome; think nothing of it.
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(08-16-2012, 11:56 AM)TrentCath Wrote:
(08-16-2012, 11:52 AM)JayneK Wrote:
(08-16-2012, 11:43 AM)TrentCath Wrote: Frankly though as long as you discuss the evidence rather than whinge and make ad hominems all the time, I don't care who of my ilk you discuss it with, though I will interject.

I have made a lot of posts in this thread addressing your allegation that Humane Vitae contradicts traditional teaching.  You just pretend they never happened and complain about ad hominems.  I suppose you don't want to acknowledge them because you have no counter-argument.  

No, all you've done is assert actually talking about things in reverse idea is perfectly normal, I don't pretend they haven't happened, I just treat them as worthless arguments.

I gave a plausible explanation for the order of "unitive and procreative" and you gave no counter-argument.  Apparently any argument that you disagree with is worthless. 

(08-16-2012, 11:56 AM)TrentCath Wrote: You on the other hand pretend that all 10 pages or so of blatant papal contradictions, which are now even on several different threads, don't exist or you make up some other excuse for not addressing them. Using your logic I too can presume that you have no counter argument to them, you see Jayne, two can play at this game  :grin:

You have been playing that game ever since you began this thread.  It's called "Post too many quotes to be responded to and pretend the lack of response is a victory."
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(08-16-2012, 11:53 AM)TrentCath Wrote: That said, and following Stubborns example, you are right I should try and be more virtuous when dealing with others, especially those that vex and irritate me, so thank you for the correction  :)

So are you going to apologize to me now?
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(08-16-2012, 12:03 PM)JayneK Wrote:
(08-16-2012, 11:56 AM)TrentCath Wrote:
(08-16-2012, 11:52 AM)JayneK Wrote:
(08-16-2012, 11:43 AM)TrentCath Wrote: Frankly though as long as you discuss the evidence rather than whinge and make ad hominems all the time, I don't care who of my ilk you discuss it with, though I will interject.

I have made a lot of posts in this thread addressing your allegation that Humane Vitae contradicts traditional teaching.  You just pretend they never happened and complain about ad hominems.  I suppose you don't want to acknowledge them because you have no counter-argument.  

No, all you've done is assert actually talking about things in reverse idea is perfectly normal, I don't pretend they haven't happened, I just treat them as worthless arguments.

I gave a plausible explanation for the order of "unitive and procreative" and you gave no counter-argument.  Apparently any argument that you disagree with is worthless. 

(08-16-2012, 11:56 AM)TrentCath Wrote: You on the other hand pretend that all 10 pages or so of blatant papal contradictions, which are now even on several different threads, don't exist or you make up some other excuse for not addressing them. Using your logic I too can presume that you have no counter argument to them, you see Jayne, two can play at this game  :grin:

You have been playing that game ever since you began this thread.  It's called "Post too many quotes to be responded to and pretend the lack of response is a victory."

a) I regard that argument as worthless given as it had always been dealt with in the reverse and correct order both by previous popes and canon law
b) this accusation is quite simply slanderous, one to add to your long list of slanders, I never even implied that was my intent, I stated quite explicitly I intended to get all the evidence in one place and then deal with it later. Just because you don't like that way of doing things doesn't mean you have to make up slanders about me
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(08-16-2012, 12:04 PM)JayneK Wrote:
(08-16-2012, 11:53 AM)TrentCath Wrote: That said, and following Stubborns example, you are right I should try and be more virtuous when dealing with others, especially those that vex and irritate me, so thank you for the correction  :)

So are you going to apologize to me now?

If you hadn't asked perhaps, now that you have I would be doing nothing but confirming your arrogance and the shameful way you have conducted yourself if I did apologise.  If you were sincere you would consider apologising for your numerous slanders and shameful attempts to laugh things away and claim that english musn't be their first language.

Oddly though didn't you say you couldn't have a serious conversation with me? I guess all this is just childish whinging then?
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On topic.

I would wonder how many members would take the time to read all the pages of quotes, sorry to say.
Have you ever heard of the German proverb "In der Beschränkung zeigt sich der Meister" transl. the restriction shows the master.

When I made a dissertation, my promotor always said: not the abundance of footnotes is what matters, it's the quality. I learned a lot from selecting.

So, it's not just agreeing or not, it's also the 'overkill'.
Therefore most SSPX don't use a load of texts, but simply show the well known picture of Pope John Paul in Assisi. But also that picture can sometimes overkill, as all know exactly what the views of the post-V2 Church are. Agree or not agree. What do you want to prove?
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(08-16-2012, 12:20 PM)kingofspades Wrote: On topic.

I would wonder how many members would take the time to read all the pages of quotes, sorry to say.
Have you ever heard of the German proverb "In der Beschränkung zeigt sich der Meister" transl. the restriction shows the master.

When I made a dissertation, my promotor always said: not the abundance of footnotes is what matters, it's the quality. I learned a lot from selecting.

So, it's not just agreeing or not, it's also the 'overkill'.
Therefore most SSPX don't use a load of texts, but simply show the well known picture of Pope John Paul in Assisi. But also that picture can sometimes overkill, as all know exactly what the views of the post-V2 Church are. Agree or not agree. What do you want to prove?

Its called having legal training  :LOL:

The more relevant sources and the better they are, the merrier. I don't have to prove anything Fr, I merely expose all the glaring contradictions of the modern popes to the light and wait for one of those group of people who believe everything can be reconciled and anyone who says otherwise is wrong and the SSPX is disobedient and naughty to reconcile it all
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(08-16-2012, 12:09 PM)TrentCath Wrote:
(08-16-2012, 12:04 PM)JayneK Wrote:
(08-16-2012, 11:53 AM)TrentCath Wrote: That said, and following Stubborns example, you are right I should try and be more virtuous when dealing with others, especially those that vex and irritate me, so thank you for the correction  :)

So are you going to apologize to me now?

If you hadn't asked perhaps, now that you have I would be doing nothing but confirming your arrogance and the shameful way you have conducted yourself if I did apologise.  If you were sincere you would consider apologising for your numerous slanders and shameful attempts to laugh things away and claim that english musn't be their first language.

Oddly though didn't you say you couldn't have a serious conversation with me? I guess all this is just childish whinging then?

This was not a conversation, at all.  I was giving you a chance to do the right thing. 

edited to add:  I do apologize to the people reading this thread.  I suspect that my tone has contributed to needlessly creating bad feeling in the forum.  I will try to do better.
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As is becoming painfully apparent from this thread and the others on the same subject, those who don't believe the popes have made serious theological errors and the SSPX is wrong, are incapable of making competent arguments when challenged with the facts. Instead they either become suddently silent, a marked change from their constant attacks on the society and others who support its position, resort to slanders, childish tactics, sophisms or outright lies.

Nevertheless I will continue to separate out the relevant materials and link to them in my signature (If I can work out how to do so) for the benefit of others who don't want to waste several hours digging it all up.
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(08-16-2012, 11:58 AM)INPEFESS Wrote:
(08-16-2012, 11:53 AM)TrentCath Wrote: That said, and following Stubborns example, you are right I should try and be more virtuous when dealing with others, especially those that vex and irritate me, so thank you for the correction  :)

O.K. You're welcome; think nothing of it.

It is so easy to return an insult with another insult.  If only we could stick to the argument, and respond kindly even to opinions we think are stupid or mean, or just ignore them if that is all we can do.  ...Virtue sure can be difficult - anywhere and therefore in this forum too.
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