Contradictions of the modern popes
(08-16-2012, 12:09 PM)TrentCath Wrote:
(08-16-2012, 12:04 PM)JayneK Wrote: So are you going to apologize to me now?

If you hadn't asked perhaps, now that you have I would be doing nothing but confirming your arrogance and the shameful way you have conducted yourself if I did apologise.  If you were sincere you would consider apologising for your numerous slanders and shameful attempts to laugh things away and claim that english musn't be their first language.

That's pride. I'm just informing you in charity. To not apologize because someone asked, and then to tell them so is nothing less than pride because you don't want to be lowered into a humble position. My priest and wife called me out on my previous habit of doing this. I know from experience. Don't fall for the bait from Satan. If you wished to apologize, just do it without regard to whether it is demanded or not, and whether the other will or not. Peace!
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(08-16-2012, 02:19 PM)Scriptorium Wrote:
(08-16-2012, 12:09 PM)TrentCath Wrote:
(08-16-2012, 12:04 PM)JayneK Wrote: So are you going to apologize to me now?

If you hadn't asked perhaps, now that you have I would be doing nothing but confirming your arrogance and the shameful way you have conducted yourself if I did apologise.  If you were sincere you would consider apologising for your numerous slanders and shameful attempts to laugh things away and claim that english musn't be their first language.

That's pride. I'm just informing you in charity. To not apologize because someone asked, and then to tell them so is nothing less than pride because you don't want to be lowered into a humble position. My priest and wife called me out on my previous habit of doing this. I know from experience. Don't fall for the bait from Satan. If you wished to apologize, just do it without regard to whether it is demanded or not, and whether the other will or not. Peace!

Thanks for this warning, but I'm afraid I disagree.
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(08-16-2012, 01:23 PM)TrentCath Wrote: As is becoming painfully apparent from this thread and the others on the same subject, those who don't believe the popes have made serious theological errors and the SSPX is wrong, are incapable of making competent arguments when challenged with the facts. Instead they either become suddently silent, a marked change from their constant attacks on the society and others who support its position, resort to slanders, childish tactics, sophisms or outright lies.

Nevertheless I will continue to separate out the relevant materials and link to them in my signature (If I can work out how to do so) for the benefit of others who don't want to waste several hours digging it all up.

Or perhaps we heed the inspired advice of Scripture:

"Speak not in the ears of fools: because they will despise the instruction of thy speech." Proverbs 23:9

"He that teacheth a scorner, doth an injury to himself: and he that rebuketh a wicked man, getteth himself a blot." Proverbs 9:7

"Go against a foolish man, and he knoweth not the lips of prudence." Proverbs 14:7

And the two most relevant verses to dealing with you, TrentCath:

"Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou be made like him.

Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he imagine himself to be wise." Proverbs 26:4-5

It is not that you are unanswerable, it is that it is fruitless to talk to you.  Jayne is absolutely correct to point out that you asserted a grammatical point, without basis and when we politely asked what rule you were citing, you acted in a COMPLETELY UN-CHRISTLIKE MANNER, and now that Jayne has patiently asked you to apologize, you have, EVEN LESS CHRIST-LIKE, refused to apologize because that might, you know, make it look like you lost a little bit or something.  Real manly of you to pick on her over the Internet and then declare victory.  I'm sure Jesus and the Saints are proud of your behavior.
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(08-16-2012, 02:23 PM)TrentCath Wrote:
(08-16-2012, 02:19 PM)Scriptorium Wrote:
(08-16-2012, 12:09 PM)TrentCath Wrote:
(08-16-2012, 12:04 PM)JayneK Wrote: So are you going to apologize to me now?

If you hadn't asked perhaps, now that you have I would be doing nothing but confirming your arrogance and the shameful way you have conducted yourself if I did apologise.  If you were sincere you would consider apologising for your numerous slanders and shameful attempts to laugh things away and claim that english musn't be their first language.

That's pride. I'm just informing you in charity. To not apologize because someone asked, and then to tell them so is nothing less than pride because you don't want to be lowered into a humble position. My priest and wife called me out on my previous habit of doing this. I know from experience. Don't fall for the bait from Satan. If you wished to apologize, just do it without regard to whether it is demanded or not, and whether the other will or not. Peace!

Thanks for this warning, but I'm afraid I disagree.

Oh, you disagree that insulting someone over an imaginary point and then refusing to apologize because she might think too highly of herself might be slightly prideful?  Good luck with that.
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(08-16-2012, 11:39 AM)INPEFESS Wrote:
(08-16-2012, 10:52 AM)TrentCath Wrote: 'Waaaaaaa I don't understand why you don't like Humanae Vitae...'

'Waaaa I don't like the way your organised the thread...'

'Waaaa your arguments about english grammar are wrong'

'Waa you're not intellectually honest'

Newsflash all you have done is whine, whinge, insult people, make absurd deductions, make absurd demands and then repeat all that over and over and over again. Frankly its clear to me that what you are doing can't be free from some sort of sin, not because you disagree with me, not because you don't like the way I do things but because of the way you do so consisting of endless absurd requests, demands, insults, attempts to laugh things away and constant bad faith. And you wonder why Stubborn, me and others can't take you seriously when you argue the modern popes and the new mass are fine and great?  :eyeroll:

TrentCath, you might get a little better response if you treated others with a little more respect. I don't think whether her conduct is sinful or not is any of your business. Whether your particular arguments here are correct or not I do not know (I haven't read them), but the tone of your post here is very condescending.  Despite whether JayneK approaches from the false premise that the pope is always right, "Waaa" is clearly a mockery of her tone. This will not convince her of your argument or make her more disposed to receive it. If I were in her shoes, your approach wouldn't convince me either (though, the pre- and post-conciliar positions you posted would severely trouble me). You should consider letting your virtue--humility, charity, and meekness--shine out through your posts instead of mockery.

In order for a virtue to shine, it is a prerequisite that it is present.
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(08-16-2012, 03:09 PM)Parmandur Wrote:
(08-16-2012, 01:23 PM)TrentCath Wrote: As is becoming painfully apparent from this thread and the others on the same subject, those who don't believe the popes have made serious theological errors and the SSPX is wrong, are incapable of making competent arguments when challenged with the facts. Instead they either become suddently silent, a marked change from their constant attacks on the society and others who support its position, resort to slanders, childish tactics, sophisms or outright lies.

Nevertheless I will continue to separate out the relevant materials and link to them in my signature (If I can work out how to do so) for the benefit of others who don't want to waste several hours digging it all up.

Or perhaps we heed the inspired advice of Scripture:

"Speak not in the ears of fools: because they will despise the instruction of thy speech." Proverbs 23:9

"He that teacheth a scorner, doth an injury to himself: and he that rebuketh a wicked man, getteth himself a blot." Proverbs 9:7

"Go against a foolish man, and he knoweth not the lips of prudence." Proverbs 14:7

And the two most relevant verses to dealing with you, TrentCath:

"Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou be made like him.

Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he imagine himself to be wise." Proverbs 26:4-5

It is not that you are unanswerable, it is that it is fruitless to talk to you.  Jayne is absolutely correct to point out that you asserted a grammatical point, without basis and when we politely asked what rule you were citing, you acted in a COMPLETELY UN-CHRISTLIKE MANNER, and now that Jayne has patiently asked you to apologize, you have, EVEN LESS CHRIST-LIKE, refused to apologize because that might, you know, make it look like you lost a little bit or something.  Real manly of you to pick on her over the Internet and then declare victory.  I'm sure Jesus and the Saints are proud of your behavior.

What was that about the blind leading the blind? A Virtue lesson from INP... I can take, as much as we disagree he at least was always polite and virtuous about it, you on the other hand can claim no such record, so as I said before take the log out of your own eye.

And even if all I said was true so what? Can you not deal with the evidence for the benefit of others? Its no problem accussing others of being wrong, the sspx being wrong etc... even when they are stubborn etc.. and yet when it comes to proving your own claims which you spend most of your time on FE re-iterating you cannot even prove them  :eyeroll:
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(08-16-2012, 03:11 PM)Parmandur Wrote:
(08-16-2012, 02:23 PM)TrentCath Wrote:
(08-16-2012, 02:19 PM)Scriptorium Wrote:
(08-16-2012, 12:09 PM)TrentCath Wrote:
(08-16-2012, 12:04 PM)JayneK Wrote: So are you going to apologize to me now?

If you hadn't asked perhaps, now that you have I would be doing nothing but confirming your arrogance and the shameful way you have conducted yourself if I did apologise.  If you were sincere you would consider apologising for your numerous slanders and shameful attempts to laugh things away and claim that english musn't be their first language.

That's pride. I'm just informing you in charity. To not apologize because someone asked, and then to tell them so is nothing less than pride because you don't want to be lowered into a humble position. My priest and wife called me out on my previous habit of doing this. I know from experience. Don't fall for the bait from Satan. If you wished to apologize, just do it without regard to whether it is demanded or not, and whether the other will or not. Peace!

Thanks for this warning, but I'm afraid I disagree.

Oh, you disagree that insulting someone over an imaginary point and then refusing to apologize because she might think too highly of herself might be slightly prideful?  Good luck with that.

You know thats not what I mean, you were after all involved in the discussion, so you are simply being disingenous, but then I've come to expect that from you.
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(08-16-2012, 03:20 PM)Parmandur Wrote: In order for a virtue to shine, it is a prerequisite that it is present.

How do you know whether he has any or not? How can any of us know? Humility and charity presume that he does without him having to prove it on a message board. We may not see it, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have it. Are we any better than he to assume that he has none because we don't see it here? In person, he may be a completely different person; we don't know. In any case, I admit that his presentation of himself here on this forum gives a very bad impression, but that doesn't mean he lacks any whatsoever. Let us pray that he soon begins to let what he presumably has shine out through his forum persona. Let us all practice what we preach.
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(08-16-2012, 03:45 PM)INPEFESS Wrote:
(08-16-2012, 03:20 PM)Parmandur Wrote: In order for a virtue to shine, it is a prerequisite that it is present.

How do you know whether he has any or not? How can any of us know? Humility and charity presume that he does without him having to prove it on a message board. We may not see it, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have it. Are we any better than he to assume that he has none because we don't see it here? In person, he may be a completely different person; we don't know. In any case, I admit that his presentation of himself here on this forum gives a very bad impression, but that doesn't mean he lacks any whatsoever. Let us pray that he soon begins to let what he presumably has shine out through his forum persona. Let us all practice what we preach.

I don't assume he does or doesn't have these virtues; but I have no evidence that suggests that they exist.  All I'm saying.
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(08-16-2012, 03:47 PM)Parmandur Wrote:
(08-16-2012, 03:45 PM)INPEFESS Wrote:
(08-16-2012, 03:20 PM)Parmandur Wrote: In order for a virtue to shine, it is a prerequisite that it is present.

How do you know whether he has any or not? How can any of us know? Humility and charity presume that he does without him having to prove it on a message board. We may not see it, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have it. Are we any better than he to assume that he has none because we don't see it here? In person, he may be a completely different person; we don't know. In any case, I admit that his presentation of himself here on this forum gives a very bad impression, but that doesn't mean he lacks any whatsoever. Let us pray that he soon begins to let what he presumably has shine out through his forum persona. Let us all practice what we preach.

I don't assume he does or doesn't have these virtues; but I have no evidence that suggests that they exist.  All I'm saying.


And you don't need any to assume that he has them. It is basic benefit of doubt. All I'm saying.  :)
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